Uniquely You: Enneagram + Real Life
Welcome to Uniquely You: Enneagram + Real Life — a podcast that brings personality wisdom into everyday moments. Hosted by life and relationship coach Wendy Busby, each episode offers honest conversations, real-life stories, and practical tips for your everyday life. Whether you're new to the Enneagram or deep in your growth journey, this space invites you to explore who you are, how you relate, and what it means to live with more clarity, compassion, and confidence. Tune in, share with a friend, and keep becoming Uniquely You.
Uniquely You: Enneagram + Real Life
Inside the Mind of an Enneagram Two
The journey of an Enneagram Two reveals a fascinating paradox – an extraordinary capacity to sense others' needs paired with a profound disconnection from one's own. This conversation with Molly Knutson-Keller takes us deep into the world of "The Helper," where we discover how mirror neurons create heightened empathy while simultaneously masking personal needs. Molly shares her winding path to discovering her true type, revealing how even Enneagram experts sometimes misidentify themselves before finding clarity through the subtypes. Her candid reflections on the Two's experience illuminate both the beautiful gifts and challenging patterns that shape her relationships. From creating dependency through helpfulness to struggling with unexpressed resentment, Molly articulates the Two's inner landscape with remarkable clarity. The conversation takes a vulnerable turn as Molly discusses rejection sensitivity and her personal journey toward authenticity. The transformative question "What do I want? What do I need?" becomes a powerful mantra for Twos seeking to reconnect with themselves. Through real-life examples, including a beautifully honest moment between the podcast host and Molly about a professional pause that triggered feelings of rejection, we witness how the Enneagram framework creates space for understanding and repair in relationships. As a life coach, Molly brings her Two energy into creating sacred, safe spaces for clients, demonstrating how the Helper's natural gifts can be channeled into meaningful work. Her brave exploration of new healing modalities, including psychedelic assisted therapy, showcases how Twos can expand their capacity for service while honoring ancient wisdom traditions. Whether you're a Two seeking to understand yourself better or someone who loves a Two in your life, this conversation offers invaluable insights into navigating relationships with greater authenticity, balancing giving with receiving, and finding true worth beyond helping others. Listen now to discover how coming home to yourself is not a destination but "a daily practice of listening inward."
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And I'm not just talking about intimate partner marriage relationships In everything, in any, relationship.
Speaker 2:I like to say you can take any situation, a relationship, a case study, something at work, anything and you can take it, put it into the Enneagram framework and untangle and see where I am, see where that person might be. It just neutralizes things in a way.
Speaker 1:And it invites understanding, invites understanding, invites understanding, like oh, I wonder why. It helps us answer those questions. I wonder why so-and-so is like that, or I wonder why so-and-so did that. It helps us answer those questions and invites understanding, conversation and repair. Welcome to Uniquely you, the podcast where self-discovery meets everyday life.
Speaker 1:I'm your host, wendy Busby, a life and relationship coach who believes that you were never meant to fit into a box. My mission is to help you grow with more clarity, compassion and confidence. Thank you for listening. Today I'm here with my very good friend, molly Knutson Keller, who has been on the podcast many times before as a fellow Enneagram teacher, but today she is here to represent all the Enneagram twos out there. Molly is a life and Enneagram coach who brings deep compassion, grounded wisdom and a gift for creating spaces where real growth can happen. She walks with people through both the beautiful and the messy parts of life, helping them reconnect with their truth, their bodies and their inner knowing. You're in for a rich conversation and it's going to be so inspiring and we're going to dig in honestly, so let's do this.
Speaker 2:Hey, molly. Oh hey, that was so sweet. Thank you, wendy, it's really good to see you.
Speaker 1:All true. It's so good to see you too. It's Molly. I like to start by asking everyone what their Enneagram story is. What drew you to the Enneagram? How did you discover that you're an Enneagram too?
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah. So let's see, I heard about the Enneagram long ago when I was in graduate school to be a pastor in seminary, and at that time I just heard about it loosely and didn't get captivated by it. At that time, forward a few decades and I was transitioning careers into coaching uh, kind of fulfilling a lifelong dream that I thought, if I don't, if I don't pursue this idea of body mind connection, I will regret it. And so that's how, um I I transitioned into coaching and at that time when I was making this change, I thought, well, if I'm going to be a coach, I should probably have a coach or try coaching, see what it's like. And I also had a really good friend who's a therapist Both of them separately, independently, at the same time happen to be huge Enneagram wisdom people, enneagram teachers and enthusiasts that this might be something I should explore, as I was really wanting to go deeper into an expertise in coaching. And so that's how I got started.
Speaker 2:I signed up for a program called through the Deep Coaching Institute, which integrates presence-based coaching and the Enneagram, and during that program I thought I was a six. I lived as a six through that whole intensive program and it was really really a meaningful, deep program. And the very last day, the very last part of the program, we did an exit interview with our mentor and our teacher, and mine happened to be Belinda Gore, and I had just listened to Beatrice Chestnut and Aranio Pius's interviews on the subtypes and B as an Enneagram self-preservation too. And as I listened to that podcast I was like, oh no, I think I'm a self-preservation too. So when I heard the subtype mixed with the type, that's when I knew.
Speaker 2:And then I went to my exit interview with Belinda and at the very beginning I was like I have to confess, I'm pretty sure I'm a two, self-preservation two. And she didn't skip a beat, wendy. She was like, oh, that makes a lot of sense, okay. And she gave such a gift to me that I like to pay forward of. There was no shame, there was no oh well, that's too bad. You didn't know that you were a two. It was just okay, that served you bad. You didn't know that you were a two, it was just, um, okay, that served you well.
Speaker 1:Now she gave you permission to just lean into the what you knew.
Speaker 2:What you're knowing was to be where I was whenever I was ready, and so that's how that's a little bit of my Enneagram journey. So then, as I've landed in self-preservation too, I've been able to kind of go that much deeper in my exploration and uncovering.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes so much sense. The subtypes are game changers. To all of you that are listening. It's a necessary part of the journey to understand, to find your subtype, to start to understand it, and so I love that story, molly, and it highlights that it's a common experience for people to go down one and explore it for a while and then come home to where they actually really are, because it's part of an inner exploration process. The whole thing is about exploring yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exploring yourself, and I have a hunch that a lot of other people could have told me I was a two Belinda may have been able to say long ago that sounds more like you might resonate with two, but it's my journey, it's my exploration, and that whole philosophy that you and I both deeply, deeply subscribe to is that people know themselves and know their experience best, their own inner wisdom, and that we can accompany and walk with them.
Speaker 1:And, yeah, always a good, a good reminder to to let our clients and the people that we're working with to have their own journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny. I mean I was, I every, I've taken every Enneagram test out there. You know, that's just what I do and I always would come back as a two Wendy, and I'm like I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, but so, um, what? What do we know of twos? Tell me the, tell me the highlights, like the, you know top five. Um, here's what it's like to be a two, to just kind of set the stage of what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I didn't prep you for that question of what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Okay, sorry, I didn't prep you for that question. That's a great question, the top five of what it's like to be a two.
Speaker 1:Well, there's a lot of outward focus for twos, a lot of. What do you mean by outward focus?
Speaker 2:A lot of thinking about other people, relationships, how people are doing, who I might need to connect with, what someone's experiencing, a lot of outward focus on relationships.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, so we haven't. I don't remember if we've talked about this before, but I recently did a two-day seminar with Dr Dan Siegel. Did I tell you that? I did that? I think I told you that I did that. Anyway, so when he was talking about Enneagram 2s, he said that their nervous systems are overloaded with mirror neurons. Oh man, are overloaded with mirror neurons, oh man, overloaded, like more than the average person. Twos have more mirror neurons in their nervous system than other people, and so it's that outward focus that you're describing, like you are looking at and scanning the environment around you, to what does the, what do the people need, what does the environment need, and that's happening as a process of your nervous system, like it's. It made so much sense when he was explaining it that way, you know.
Speaker 2:I haven't heard that before and I'm glad that you shared that with me, because it makes a lot of sense and it's kind of like validating.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, I mean, you're not going to beat your nervous system, yeah Right. So it's like okay, well, how are you going to work with it? Yeah Right, you cannot know it. Okay. Well, I don't want all these mirror neurons that seem to rule my life. I don't want that, okay. So then, how are you going to work with it? What are you going to do to accept that it's a part of you and how you're made, and also not let it control you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah Cool.
Speaker 2:That's really fascinating.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you said outward focused, what else?
Speaker 2:Outward focused, okay, so you said outward focused with people sometimes, and that might depend on subtype, but there is a way of you know that positive spin Um twos often can live in the positive and spinning things to the positive, which is a strategy, uh, a good strategy. Many times, like every strategy, it has its pendulum swing, but with that comes this kind of playfulness and positivity, a focus on being positive. A focus on being positive, okay, a focus on being positive, okay, so I describe it as I am really helpful and loving and can be very present with people and attentive and meddling and cross boundaries and really get in people's business. Is that three? Or is that three, four, five?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's you really. You've just no, you've hit the high points right. It's so helpful, generous, kind giving, wants everyone around them to be helpful and well and happy, and but in order to create an environment like that, you have to do what Control, meddle. Try tell people what to do All the things right In the very friendly I mean in the very friendly way things right, in the very friendly. I mean in the very friendly way, not in the bossy way, right, but it's like it's yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think you hit all of the points. But what you're describing to go back to your very first point is that it's all outward focused, and so twos lose a sense of themselves. They forget, like that they're there, oh, wait a minute. Oh, wait a minute Right? Oh, you also have needs. So twos forget that they have needs and don't know what they need because they've forgotten that they have needs, like all of those things.
Speaker 2:It's is that would you concur with all that? I would. I would, and, and in my younger years, if you asked me how I was doing. Good, I'm good, I'm great. And what do you feel? What are you feeling right now? I have no idea.
Speaker 1:I would have no idea. So it's almost-. But if someone asks you how are they feeling? How's your husband feeling?
Speaker 2:Your daughter.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, you'd be able to answer that question like that.
Speaker 2:And I'd think I was right, even if I wasn't. Yeah, and I think I was right, even if I wasn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Ding, ding, ding ding.
Speaker 2:And spend a little, spend a lot of time there in how they were. How are you? How are you? It's more comfortable that outward focus yeah, it's more comfortable to be there than to be with myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so we've kind of alluded to that. Twos are very relationship focused, right, they're part of the heart grouping, very relationship focused. So how has your experience as a two really shaped the way you show up in your closest relationships? The way you show up in your closest relationships you know you think of your very closest relationships how does your experience as a two shaped the way you show up in those relationships?
Speaker 2:Um, I believe, uh, I kind of have been looking at it like the pros and the cons, so I can show up really with a whole bunch of love and my kids will tell me they never questioned that I love them. Affirmation, positive words, presence if something's, if they need to to have me with them in spirit or in a phone call or in just being together. Um, and with my, with my husband, we have a very positive loving, a lot of physical affection. I think twos really are emotive, at least I am. I like to hug, I like to have those positive words of affirmation. Sometimes it can be a little invasive, I think, in my neediness, where maybe someone doesn't want, maybe I say they want a hug, but it's really me that needs the hug. Oh, so, here, let me do this for you, yeah. And also creating this idea of dependency, like you know. Oh, you want a glass of water, let me get it for you. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah, I'll do this, I'll do it, and feeling very, very responsible for that.
Speaker 1:So a little bit like creating an environment where other people rely on you. Yeah, because you just do for them, okay. And the doing for them feels good.
Speaker 2:Most of the time, until I get resentful, oh, or that I don't want to do it, but I feel like. I should do it Okay.
Speaker 1:So what is that like when you realize that you don't want to do something?
Speaker 2:Well, it's these days really great to recognize oh, I don't want to do that. Oh, I'm not going to do that. Oh, I don't have to do that.
Speaker 1:But what about, in your early like and before, you did all of this inner work, this beautiful inner work that I know that you have done, to get to the, to the place where you can say what you just said, right, like, oh, I don't want to do that, I'm not going to do it. Go back, however many years, right To the Molly before that, who it's interesting.
Speaker 2:There's this um way of helping that centers myself in everything. What do you mean by that? I mean, so someone would say we should have a family dinner and I would say, okay, I will make that happen. And then it becomes about me making something happen versus just letting it happen. How it's going to happen. I I describe it like I the the bait gets dangled and I take it and I grab it and I run with it, and or I put myself in the center of things where maybe I wasn't even invited. And I don't mean like in a play date or something, but even in a relationship, like, say, two people are having an issue, well, I want to get in there and help them figure it out. It's, it's almost compulsive. Does that make sense, wendy? Am I making sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. It does make sense, right, but I want to come back to the question of needs right.
Speaker 1:Of someone where you don't want to do something. What was it like for you when you realized you didn't want to do something but you didn't really know how to navigate that conversation, conflict, whatever it feels like inside of you to say no or to place a boundary, or to whatever you want to call it Right, so it's. You're constantly saying yes, oh, yes, oh yes. Or you you didn't even ask, but my answer is yes, right, I mean, you didn't even ask me, but yes, of course. Right, of course I was already there. Get there faster.
Speaker 2:You know, I see what you're saying and you can probably see how hard it is for me to even get there, isn't it crazy?
Speaker 1:Because you mentioned resentment. So I don't want to pass over resentment, and I think a great way to describe a two's resentment is to stay on the on the topic of needs, because needs are are where resentment kind of lies. Mm-hmm, you say that that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, um, so I can think of, if somebody asked me something to do something for them, kind of being aghast that they would even ask, like I can't believe you would even ask that of me. I would never ask that of you. Like, say, dog sitting, for example. I mean it's always a thing right, like of course I can't do that, blah, blah, blah, whatever. But in talking to one of my super close friends, you know, as we try to try to explore ourselves, it's like she's like, well, they can ask you just have to say no. It's like she's like, well, they can ask you just have to say no, it's not it. So getting focused on good behavior or what's. You know what I mean? Like, well, I wouldn't, I don't have needs, I wouldn't ask that of you. So how could you ask that of me?
Speaker 1:And so you get upset that they've asked, but you can't say no, and so then you find yourself doing something you don't want to do. Yeah, and then being mad but not saying that, being mad with a smile on your face.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's it's, it's inauthentic, and so then I think that that that energy can be picked up right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what's been your growth around the area of needs? How, how have you what? How do I ask this question? What's the first step for someone who is a two, who's ready to start working in the area of getting in touch with their needs and also starting to place boundaries around saying yes to everything? Where do they start?
Speaker 2:That's a good question For me. What has been my mantra? I can't ask it enough of myself. What do I want? What do I need?
Speaker 1:What do I want? What do I need? What do I want?
Speaker 2:What do I need over and over in anything? Do you want to go to the play on Friday, molly? Yeah, oh, wait, hang on. What do I want? What do I need? Oh, yeah, I do want to go or no, I don't. And everything asking that, yeah, okay. And one of the things that really helped me, wendy, in my understanding, in in myself, was realizing that Enneagram twos really take things personally, really take things personally and are really sensitive and also have a real relationship with rejection, feeling rejected. And that's where the Enneagram framework is so helpful, because it's like it's not just me, it's a way, it's a pattern, and so when I recognize that I take things personally and that twos do, it's like, oh, okay, ow, I'm taking it so personally, you're rejecting me. Oh, yeah, that's what twos do. Okay, little sweetie, okay. And then being able to come back to a less, I don't know, triggered and you know.
Speaker 1:So what do you have to say to yourself? How do you coach yourself? Essentially right, how do you coach yourself through the feeling of rejection?
Speaker 2:knowing it's there and that it's always at play. From a very, very, very young age we all got our needs met. Because we're here, we got our basic needs met and then realizing that in some way we maybe felt something with attachment, something with frustration, something with rejection, and so Enneagram 2 with frustration, something with rejection, and so Enneagram twos have a connection with rejection and that that's that's at play a lot that I can feel rejected.
Speaker 1:So, being aware, the time to really check in with myself, oh, okay. Oh, there's that very familiar feeling, very familiar sensation, very familiar fear. Right, rejection is also fear-based. Because we want to be included, we're always scanning for inclusion or exclusion, right, yeah, and so okay, there it is. How do you come back from that? There it is. How do you come back from?
Speaker 2:that.
Speaker 1:Well, first, the thing that I'm trying to get always practiced at is comforting myself, assuring, myself, I'm so loved I am, I'm not rejected, I do do belong, and it's not personal, this is, and it's okay, it's okay, it's okay. Yeah, I think it's. I think that this is true for all Enneagram types. We have to wreck, we have to learn the language of the lies we believe and be brave enough to tell ourselves the truth, especially for us two, threes and fours. That just because I feel this way doesn't make it true.
Speaker 1:Just because I feel rejected doesn't mean I am rejected. Just because I feel misunderstood doesn't mean I am misunderstood, but it's honoring for certainly for me. I have to honor the feeling. I'm feeling I have to go. This feeling is very real for me right now.
Speaker 2:You know, as you asked that question about how do I work through it, a big thing for me is journaling and being able to write down all my thoughts and feelings, and it really does help it pass through me. That is one of the tools that I use. The other thing I wanted to mention Wendy and I hope this is okay. We didn't talk about this before, but you and I have this really strong relationship and we've done some work together as far as teaching, and we decided that we needed to put a pause on something and I remember you asked. You came to me and said Molly, I'm not rejecting you.
Speaker 1:I'm putting a pause on this. I think you even started the sentence that way I'm not rejecting you, we're using the Enneagram language.
Speaker 2:You said I need to put a pause on this. I'm not rejecting you, I love you and this is why and this is why and I said that's great, I agree, we need to put a pause. And in that moment I really did feel that I felt like, oh, this is the right move, we need to put a pause on this. I went away and then slowly, those feelings of rejection did creep in, even though I know you love me, I know I love you. We are very solid.
Speaker 2:Those feelings still came and part of my work, my growth work, was to share that with you, that I did actually feel rejected and I wanted you to know that and that I knew that wasn't true, but I wanted you to know that I did feel that and that I recognize that. And what my kind of takeaway with that was for this moment is like being able to process things with people who are doing the inner work with you, with safe people who you can explore these things and actually practice new things and be vulnerable with. And you know we made fast repair. There wasn't even a huge rupture, but being able to be honest with my feelings was a big deal for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just want to highlight I'm so glad that you brought this up right, because this is real relationship. This is how real relationship works. When you're in a real relationship with someone, you need to be able to share honestly how you're experiencing the relationship so those conversations can be had. So that reassuring. You know, when you came to me and you said I know, I said I didn't feel rejected, but as time went by, I'm feeling rejected and I was able to reassure you again I'm not rejecting you.
Speaker 1:We talked through it at length and left feeling wonderful about the state of our friendship, andagram. In intimate relationship. I'm talking about partnership. Marriage is beyond. This is a friendship.
Speaker 1:We're talking about how we have used the enneagram to help us navigate conflict in our relationship, because we value true, deep relationship.
Speaker 1:Otherwise it could have been like oh, yada, yada, yada, oh, we'll have a little distance here and it'll be fine, we're good, right, we're good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, that's both of us putting on our defense mechanisms, because then I was able to come back to you and say well, that makes me feel a little misunderstood, because that was not my intention and I tried to reassure you. But it was this back and forth where we were able to reassure one another that we value one another in this relationship. We understand our differences, because that's what this is about. It's about differences and to say that it's okay for us to put a pause on what we were doing, because we both are doing amazing things that are important to each of us, and when we come back together, it's going to be with more purpose. Come back together, it's going to be with more purpose, more clarity and more direction. I just feel it inside myself, and so I'm glad that you brought that up, because it's a real-life example of how the Enneagram can be used in relationships and not just talking about intimate partner marriage relationships in any relationship.
Speaker 2:I like to say you can take any situation, a relationship, a case study, something at work, anything and you can take it, put it into the Enneagram framework and untangle and see where I am, see where that person might be. It just it neutralizes things in a way.
Speaker 1:And it invites understanding. Invites understanding. It invites understanding, like oh, I wonder why it helps us answer those questions, I wonder why so-and-so is like that, or I wonder why so-and-so did that. It helps us answer those questions and invites understanding, conversation and repair.
Speaker 2:And you know, as an Enneagram too with that kind of follow-up conversation that you and I had, with that kind of follow-up conversation that you and I had, it was me being authentic and that is very important growth work. And it doesn't mean sometimes Enneagram twos maybe can be fake nice, which I hate saying that, I'm sorry to say that, sorry all twos, but it's true we can put on our niceness outside when there's a different experience happening inside and so kind of that alignment and authenticity is really powerful growth work for me. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing so well. We kind of already we talked a little bit about the messy.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I was going to be. I was going to talk to you a little bit about, like you know, getting through the messy parts of life. But we did just talk a little bit about the messy part, so is it?
Speaker 2:um, is it okay if I share one thing about the messy, just in general? That was super um, affirming for me and liberating. Um, when I was going through an incredibly difficult time a few years ago, like four years ago, and it was just a perfect storm of challenges and change and unknown, and during that time I had a physical experience and my hair fell out and I wasn't sick. I thought I might be sick or something like it all fell out and I went to the doctor. They did all sorts of tests, biopsies. It was kind of an oddity and I was okay, I was fine physically, and so that was like the least of my worries and the scope of what was happening.
Speaker 2:You know, you know, life four years ago had a lot of complexities and when we went to the Enneagram Retreat, a Eranio Pius said something to me about Enneagram 2s. He said often they need a wake-up call, a physical wake-up call. And just to clarify, this doesn't mean people bring on their own illnesses or that someone who's sick it's their fault. That is not what I'm saying here and that's not what he was saying. But what he was saying is sometimes there is such a denial of self, of self-understanding, that our bodies wake us up. Our bodies will wake us up, and that's the framework that he put my hair loss into was it was my body waking up the rest of me, and that made me, in a strange way, I felt so good about that. I was like, oh, thank you, I'll keep doing my inner work. It was motivating and not shaming.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right, I had forgotten about that, but I remember when he talked about that and he also mentioned something correct me if I'm wrong mentioned something correct me if I'm wrong about twos and something about their hair, like needing oh, yes, like that hair is a crown, like almost like A crown, a crown of some kind. It's very important that like something specifically about hair and being able to-.
Speaker 2:I think it's sorry as I'm playing with my hair, like being able to hide behind the hair and yeah, yeah, like as a part of beauty, a part of strategy, a part of image.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and over-focus on, maybe over-focus on that in some way. Yeah, I wonder, if you're listening to this and you're a two. Let us know if that's true for you too. Is there something specific that has to do with how you feel about your hair? It would be interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be really interesting. Yeah, and I want to just put a plug for like such compassion, self-compassion and like love in this. Um, just because, just because I'm a two, I identify with two.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know, because a lot of people just listen, I don't know how many people watch, but you know your hair came back beautifully, like I mean yeah, then it just came back. It just came back, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, tell me about what is bringing you joy these days.
Speaker 2:Oh, simple things. Oh simple things my dogs. I just love watching my dogs and being with them and being outside in my yard, going for walks, being in the garden, so that just kind of the slower, simpler things happen and having some time like alone time, spaciousness time, time to write and just be with myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And appreciate, appreciate, yeah, being okay with things slowing down, right. There's a compulsion for twos to be busy all the time, and that's part of their strategy of not connecting with themselves. If I'm busy all the time, I don't have to then consider how I'm feeling inside, what my own needs are and the discomfort with not even being in touch with. It's like there's this blankness there when it comes to getting in touch with needs as a two, and so a strategy is to stay busy If I'm busy, doing whatever it is that the two happens to be doing. Whatever it is that the two happens to be doing keeps them from having to slow down, and so it's a good thing for twos to inquire like am I so busy? Am I staying busy as a strategy to avoid myself?
Speaker 2:I am so glad that you mentioned that and I really resonate with that. There was a long time in my life where to be alone for 10 minutes felt like torture. I didn't know what to do, who was I going to call, and that has changed almost the other way Not quite, but you know, yeah, changed almost the other way Not quite, but I'll be honest here, not quite all the way but I'm really craving that spaciousness of time now. But I just think that's so true how you said that, that the busyness, the doing all of the time as a strategy to not be with oneself or attend to my own needs, and that, just as you were describing that, it made me feel so sad because there's such beauty inside side and sometimes I think as twos.
Speaker 2:We, we don't see that in ourselves, and or even get to know that, that it's so focused outward, and so just an encouragement that that you are, that you are, it's okay to get to know yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's how you get to know your own worth, and it's okay to have your worth ceases to be so tied to the affirmation you're getting from others yeah, right, all of this, the thank yous and the, the um appreciations and and recognitions and all of that when that's so tied to worth, you start to know, you start to get. Come home like your own little. Come home to yourself. Yeah, come home to yourself and settle into that. You are worthy.
Speaker 1:Yep, just settling in settling You're worthy just because of you, not because of what you're doing or how you help or any of those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I'd like um, I feel like that's a good spot to kind of transition. I want to talk to you about what you're doing professionally. I mean, you are a coach and you have clients, and so I want to talk about how you use the Enneagram professionally, and I know that it's really important for you that you create the kind of safe and welcoming space that your clients desire. It's one of the reasons why they come to you is because they feel safe. They feel your warmth, your welcome, right. There's a way that twos have such a welcoming energy and often it helps people feel like they're in a safe space, you know. So how do you create that in the environment in which you're in, even though it's emanating from you, right, but you still put effort into creating an environment that holds that in the space? How do you do?
Speaker 2:that? That's a good question. Um, it starts from the very beginning. From the very first time someone reaches out and say we do a discovery call just to get to know each other, I always start out by saying everything here is a hundred percent confidential, that this space is a safe space, and I have an oath of confidentiality because I think that's important. Sometimes people might just assume that, but I think it's important to voice that, to state that, and also, um, I tell people there's not a whole lot of have-tos in this space, that they can have spaciousness to explore and to get comfortable and feel safe and to get some momentum when you go to the doctor or when you sign your kids up for school.
Speaker 2:There's so many forms and have-tos that you have to fill out. When people enter into a coaching relationship with me, there's one form and that's just the coaching agreement for my records. And then I have a client questionnaire which is food for thought, which I always assure people it's not a have to, it doesn't need to be a burden. If it's inspiring and it's food for thought, then please fill it out, use it for yourself, for as much or as little as going to serve you, and I think setting the tone that way can be invitational versus you need to do this, this, this and this before you can be invitational versus you need to do this, this, this and this before you can.
Speaker 2:You know, I believe that people have their own inner wisdom and know their life and their complexities, and so they can, they can be the drivers of that. And then, in my space, my comfortable and intentional and um things are set in a way where people can have access to what they need. If, if they need a tissue, if they need, I give a glass of water to everybody. Um, just just ways to really be um intentional about creating a sacred space, because I do believe it's sacred. Each person's story is sacred, and to create that sacred space, that's a step away.
Speaker 1:It's like its own little bubble of time in a coaching session, and so leaning into that, yeah, that's wonderful and I've learned so much from you in that you know you're like it's okay to slow down. Wendy, it's okay to slow down, and yeah. So thank you for your own wisdom in that too, and so you've also. Well, we have talked, we haven't really mentioned it here, thank you. And then what does that look like in a session with a client, where you're guiding them through some body-based awareness?
Speaker 2:So body-based awareness is attuning, even getting curious about what's happening from here down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe that's a jump from the knee to the hand hand to the neck. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:We are a culture in particular that really believes our head is in control, that the head is the knower of everything, that the head is the knower of everything, when, in fact, our body and our senses have so much wisdom to share with us. So body based awareness and somatic practice is, uh, tuning into the whole of ourselves what our sensations are, where things are, where we're experienced, experiencing something, um what? Maybe our foot's tingling, maybe we feel something happening in our gut. As someone is sharing something, sometimes I will ask them what's happening in you right now? Can you take a moment to check in? Where are you sensing something in yourself?
Speaker 1:And through that people discover things that they didn't know. Yes, and your body is so full of wisdom. Yeah, and inviting people to touch into that by asking the questions that you just described. Where are you feeling that in your body?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot of times to answer that question about how it integrates in my practice, sometimes we'll start with a meditation. A lot of times I like to, but not everybody's comfortable with that, and so I totally respect that too. And a lot of times I invite people to breathe into the space, acknowledging where you've come from, where I've come from, and let's just breathe together and into this sacred space that's just for you, and even just inviting that breath, people can gather wisdom from inside.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I do something very similar where it's like, oh, it's okay, we're here, let's just take a deep breath. You made it right Because they're rushing it. You've been in your office. I've been in my office, like I'm grounded in this space, and our clients are coming in from wherever it is that they have going on in their life and they need a minute to just like settle, and that's often about settling into the body, and so usually my first inquiry is like what is your state right now? Like, where are you right now? Are we here? Yeah, are we still coming through the door? You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good question Are we a mile down the road? Yeah, are you onto your next thing?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then taking a second to to get grounded, to let the heart rate come down, you know, to to settle the body. And because it is a whole, it's about being whole and not about just what is it that you think. You think what is your body telling you? That is where the that's where so much of the wisdom lies. Yeah, and we're brave enough to listen. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, yeah, that whole body. Wisdom, the vagus, nerve.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a book that I often recommend for people is the Body Keeps the Score. It's, you know, a fantastic book. It is a little bit of an academic read, but it's excellent in the way it describes that. So, um, okay. So, staying on this topic of working with clients, what patterns, um, what patterns do you notice most in the clients that come initially Like what? What are the top three things that you know? People come to you and, and their focus you know, maybe their cold coaching goal or their the focus of what brings them through the door is what Often it is something's off or they want to make a transition, or there's something happening in their relationship where they need to figure out themselves.
Speaker 2:A lot of times it's something's happening, something is happening, something's happening.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they may not be able to verbalize it with a lot of clarity. They just know something is off, something's off, something's not feeling good, I'm struggling, or whatever it is. It can be anything. It can be anything but. I think that you've described. I think if we, you know, pulled all the coaches out there, it would be. Oh, something's just feeling a little off.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Maybe it's a little off, Maybe it's a lot off you know, and it's so interesting because sometimes it can be about one thing, and yet it's always about the whole. It's always about it always connects to one's whole self, and so it's just.
Speaker 1:It's often about what's underneath the thing. Yeah, I like to describe it Under the thing that we're talking about right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when someone will come and they just say I don't even know what I'm talking about, is this scattered, is this making sense? I'm like, yeah, it makes sense because it's in your bucket, it's you and those dots will connect somehow. And sometimes wait, I don't know why I'm talking about this way. Over here, it's like, oh, it's okay, it's connected.
Speaker 1:It's connected Well and trust has to be built right. It's so important that trust is established.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, rarely, unless you've got an Enneagram 4 coming through your door, they're not going to sit down and tell you all the things. Yeah Right, it takes time to establish trust, takes time to get to the what's actually happening because, yes, it's certainly related to what brought them through the door, but it's often two or three layers deeper and that's where you can. Oh, this is the thing that feels stuck and how we can. Okay, let's work with that to move you forward in whatever your goals might be. Intentions might be like what do you want to get out of this coaching experience? All the questions we ask? You know that go along with that. But it's.
Speaker 2:It's an untangling. It's an untangling, yeah, and sometimes known, sometimes not, yeah, and the Enneagram in there helps me very much. Um, I don't require that clients use the Enneagram or buy into it. Even and if and when they're open to it, we do integrate it and for me, as an Enneagram enthusiast and coach and professional, I have that lens that helps me understand and maybe be able to speak someone's language.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And where they're at.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. So one more question, one more professional question. Sure, sure, sure, okay. What's one brave step that you've taken in your business lately that has either stretched you or surprised you?
Speaker 2:Hmm, well, one brave step that has both stretched and surprised me is I just recently completed a certificate in psychedelic assisted therapy through a school in Colorado and I've just found it to be stimulating and liberating and mind blowing and transformative in um it's ancient healing properties and in um my own understanding and assumptions and judgments.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what made you interested in that?
Speaker 2:I had a friend who was really interested in this and was working with me and a trusted social six who's at the height of safety and security, so I felt very safe and through that I had real clarity in there is such healing potential and such healing not even potential such healing actuality and a lot of misinformation out there, and so I was compelled to go and learn more and to understand. And it's just the tip of the iceberg that I understand yeah and you hear more.
Speaker 1:I certainly do hear more and more about it these days. People are curious, certainly curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:What? What is that? How can it help? And it's not um, um. And it's different, because the way you're the, that you're wanting to do it in that therapeutic sense where it's a very controlled environment, you're working with somebody who's trained, it's not like going just going off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not recreational but there's there's a lot of information that's coming out you know about how it is helping people in ways that traditional medicines aren't able to do. And you know we we have a lot of mutual friends who have experienced that and their stories are interesting and you know the the healing that they're experiencing in their own stories. It's certainly like who are we to say, well, that's not real. Like I mean, we have no business saying that, right.
Speaker 1:That their experience is their experience, and so I think it's very brave. It is brave, right. It's a brave step. It is a surprising step. I think that people who know you are surprised that that's a direction that you've gone in. But I can't wait for you to explore how that's going to enhance the incredible service that you already give service that you already give.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Thank you for that and I'm channeling a lot of trust and prayer and discernment and real acknowledgement of ancestors and indigenous cultures and that it's way bigger than me and that I will just continue to learn and explore and grow. I mean in everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Always yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, thank you for being even brave enough to share.
Speaker 2:I know, you know me, right, you know me. I know. Yeah, yeah, okay, well, gosh right.
Speaker 1:You know me, I know yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, gosh, we're almost at an hour now.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:We lose track of time when we're talking, so I will start to wrap us up. So, okay, my closing question for you is going to be if you could go back and tell your younger self one thing, what would it be? Molly, little Molly, young Molly, young woman Molly, what would you tell her? What does she need to hear from you?
Speaker 2:She needs to hear oh no, and now it's going to get me all choked up. To hear oh no, and now it's going to get me all choked up. You are so smart. You are always loved. You can keep trusting yourself.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let her hear that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, all you twos out there too.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:You're so smart, you're always loved. Not just you're so loved, but like I'm always loved, always loved.
Speaker 1:Always Mm-hmm, yes, yeah, and being grounded in that truth that you are loved.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That you are loved, so where can people find you? Molly, if someone wants to follow what you're doing, learn more about your services, where do they find?
Speaker 2:you. Well, you can find me in Olympia, washington that's where I live and you can find me online at my website's, mollykkcoachingcom. And then I'm on Instagram and Facebook, and you can sure get on my email list and always feel free to reach out to me text or email, or anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll put those. I'll put a link to your Instagram and website in the show notes. It'll be easy for people to access. And then, of course, we'll collaborate on Instagram as I publish the podcasts and all that kind of stuff, so people will be able to find it on my Instagram as well. But thank you, molly, for your candid sharing today about yourself as a two, but also about the amazing stuff you're doing with your business, and so I have a closing quote for us today.
Speaker 2:Okay, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yes, just a nice way to close our conversation. Coming home to yourself Isn't a destination. It's a daily practice of listening inward. Destination. It's a daily practice of listening inward, honoring what you find and walking forward with kindness and courage.
Speaker 2:Beautiful thank you, yes, thanks for this time to be together absolutely we will talk soon okay, and I just, I just love you.
Speaker 1:I love you too, bye.