Your Enneagram Friend

Therese Fitzpatrick: Transformation and Vulnerability (Type 8)

• Wendy Busby

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Ever wonder how a career shift could transform not just your professional life but your entire worldview? Meet Therese Fitzpatrick, a mental health therapist from Chicago who made a remarkable transition from a 25-year tenure as a U.S. probation officer to a fulfilling role in therapy. Her journey, interwoven with her Irish Catholic upbringing and values, offers profound insights into parenting adult children and embracing life's changes. Discover how the Enneagram became a pivotal tool during the early days of COVID, reshaping her personal and professional landscape.

Therese opens up about her experiences as an Enneagram Type Eight, particularly focusing on the social eight subtype. Her stories illuminate the unique trials and triumphs of being a driven woman in traditionally masculine fields. Through direct and candid anecdotes, Therese shares the importance of establishing boundaries and learning to coexist with discomfort without feeling the urge to solve everyone's problems. Her practical strategies, like yoga and meditation, serve as powerful tools for managing the intense energy that comes with her personality type.

Therese candidly shares how she sought feedback from her adult children, uncovering how her optimism could sometimes overshadow their emotions. Through this honest exchange, she realized the power of stepping back and allowing her kids to navigate their realities independently. Offering advice on communicating with Type Eights, Therese emphasizes the necessity of directness and honesty. This episode is full Vulnerabilityof wisdom for anyone seeking to understand themselves and their relationships more deeply through the Enneagram lens.

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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the your Enneagram Friend Podcast, where you are invited into an engaging and thought-provoking conversation about the Enneagram. I'm Wendy Busby, your very own life and relationship coach here to inspire you to create the life you want. Coach here to inspire you to create the life you want. So today I have the great pleasure of talking to my friend, Therese Fitzpatrick. Therese, I'd like to start by giving my listeners a chance to learn a little bit about you, so, if you will, first hello.

Speaker 2:

Hello Wendy, I'm honored to be here. Hello.

Speaker 1:

Wendy, I'm honored to be here, so happy that you're here. So if you would Therese, if you would just give us a little insight into who you are, maybe a little bit about what you do, where you live, a little of your family, whatever really it is that you feel comfortable sharing today, sure, so I live here in Chicago and I currently work as a mental health therapist.

Speaker 2:

I've been doing this about nine, ten years, but really my primary career was that of being a US probation officer for 25 years, and so I feel very fortunate that I've had a really varied and challenging career. So that's my work. On the professional front, I'm trained, my degrees are in social work, so I do consider myself a social worker. I have three adult children. I've been divorced for seven years, so I'm currently single and let's see, is that you know, that's about it my family of origin. I probably should include that because I consider that like a significant thing in my life. I come from a large Irish Catholic family. I have seven siblings and we all, to this day, stay very close. We all, to this day, stay very close, and I'm really proud of my background and feel very fortunate to come from such support and from a good family Certainly not a family without its problems at times, but, you know, a good, close family and I've tried to take a lot of those values into how I've raised my three children, who are young adults right now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's awesome and I love hearing you talk about when you were a probation officer and I mean it's such a big change right From being a probation officer to being a therapist and coming from this big family where you have that. You have such an incredible, inspiring story and, yeah, I can't wait for people to hear more about you and about how your story has unfolded in your life.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, it's interesting because people are always surprised when they hear that I was a fabulous career and luckily, here in Chicago we always considered our mission to be really helping people to change, helping people to do better, and we believed in people and that role has really informed a lot of my life and helped me to kind of keep an attitude of optimism. So it is interesting now in my work as a therapist how many people gravitate toward me because they know that I had a history of working with folks who you know they and their families were involved in the criminal justice system.

Speaker 1:

So what a gift, what a gift that you have Thanks Not only your clients, but also your community and bringing awareness to that.

Speaker 2:

So I love that you're doing that.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, Wendy. So the second question I like to ask my guest is what is your Enneagram story? When did you first learn about the Enneagram and how did you discover your type?

Speaker 2:

your type. Well, you know, I didn't hear about the Enneagram until about five years ago. It was during the beginning phases, I think, of COVID and our mutual friend Sarah said to me hey, have you ever heard about the Enneagram? And I'm like I have no idea what you're talking about. And so it was through her and our partnership as friends that I really delved into it because I was just so fascinated by it. And you know I was a little what's the word I want to use? And you know I was a little what's the word I want to use. You know I was a little put off with myself that I didn't know about it. Here I am a therapist and I'm well read. And how did the Enneagram get by me? And it was funny. After Sarah told me about it I said to my young daughter who was working on her doctorate at the time, I said, my God, sarah told me about this really cool thing, this tool called the Enneagram, and my daughter said, oh, I know all about it In my program. She's an audiologist. She goes they had us figure out what our Enneagram type is, to help us kind of focus in on you know where. We would be good specialists in our field. So that was kind of my introduction. So that was kind of my introduction.

Speaker 2:

And then, being a full on eight, you know, the minute I heard about it, you know I took that intense energy of the eight, the lust of the eight, and I wanted to know everything about it. So but of course, at first I had no idea that I was an eight. You know, it took me, I would say, a few months to really narrow in on it and I think part of it is I'm the counter type of an eight, I'm a social eight, yeah. So you know, I feel very different from a self-prez eight or the one-to-one eight and I never really I took three tests and I don't ever come out strongly. It's, the first number is an eight. So it was kind of through my reading and comparing and, um, doing my work with Sarah, um that I figured out that I am indeed an eight. So, yeah, so I, I'm five years in, I'm I'm sure I'm a socialite.

Speaker 1:

I would agree with that.

Speaker 2:

Okay, well, and that means a lot to me.

Speaker 1:

Just in my opinion.

Speaker 2:

I consider you quite-.

Speaker 1:

Can you repeat what you just?

Speaker 2:

said, I consider you quite an authoritarian on the Enneagram. So if you support that, I'm a social eight. That's the icing on the cake with it.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for that complimentary, so it's very, very kind of you, and so just to kind of recap, so, for the sake of the listeners, you are a social eight, which is the counter type of the eights, which means it's the type that looks a little bit different than the self-preservation eight or the one-to-one eight and can look a little bit more two-ish right, there's a little bit yes, and can look a little bit more two-ish. Right, there's a little bit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, social leads can look a little bit more two-ish, and so it's just again. What always amazes me about the Enneagram is that it's so multi-layered, it's so complex, and if we just look at it from the surface we might really miss the point and we might really miss our own selves in it. And so I love that you did the work, I love that your daughter supported your work in that, and then, of course, Sarah. So I'll also tell our listeners that Therese and I met at CP Enneagram Inner Work Retreat, like many of my other guests have, and it was such a bonding experience with the group that we had, and it was over two years ago and we're all still very connected with one another.

Speaker 1:

We are each other's support system in the Enneagram, and so not only do I really just love talking to you about the Enneagram and your experience as a social eight, but I love that you are my friend. Oh, thank you, I love that you are my friend. I feel the same way. Thank you, therese. Okay, so when you did discover or when you did land on, okay, I'm an eight, I'm not only an eight, but I'm also a social eight.

Speaker 2:

What was your biggest kind of aha moment when you began kind of observing yourself through the lens of the type eight um, probably that intensity and my intense energy, um, that was like, oh yeah, this, this is definitely me, um, to the point where I I can. My energy can be really frenetic at times. Also my ability to be pretty direct with people, and you know my desire to always solve problems.

Speaker 1:

So that connected with me, and then, of course, just my chosen career path, being a social worker and then working in the criminal justice system for 25 years that was like, oh yeah, yeah, this is me. Yes, it lands in that way. Yeah, I think most people, when they really take a look at what has driven them in their life to choose the career they've chosen or whatever their mission in life might be, there is somehow a connection to how the Enneagram type kind of expresses itself in the world, and so it totally makes sense. But what I also want to have you touch on, if you will, is how did you then experience this intense energy being very direct with people, this intense energy being very direct with people? How?

Speaker 2:

were you received as being that way as a woman. Well, that is a really good point. With being an eight, I do think that learning my Enneagram type has also been soothing for me as a woman, because we know that the type eight energy in the past traditionally has really been looked at as more masculine energy, not particularly feminine energy. And really when I was young, finding my way throughout my career, I mean, I always did go back and forth thinking, hmm, am I coming on too strong? Do I need to be softer? You know, although when I was a probation officer, Right, I was just going to say.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it really worked for me because it's not only with the offenders but all the males in that system lawyers, judges where I could hold my own with them. So it did serve me in that way, probably more in my personal life it's like OK, you know, maybe I do need to temper this a little bit, but, you know, finding my Enneagram, I think I'm just being direct and somebody else thinks that I'm being too direct, so, um, so it's mostly felt good to me and just kind of affirming that it's okay but keep doing the work to you know, um, you know, be soft when I need to be soft.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you know, especially when in relationships, right. Like your career, yes, required you to have that tougher, more direct exterior, and that served you. It kept you safe, probably, in those environments. But then, like you said, coming home and you've got these children and you know this home environment where maybe they needed a softer version of Teresa.

Speaker 2:

I mean, this is a funny thing. I remember my ex-husband early. Well, the kids were there, so maybe midway through our marriage we were married a long time. I do remember him saying okay, teresa, I'm not one of your offenders. So I mean I'm not one of your offenders, so I mean we did laugh about that, but it it, it, it. I took that in and it did hit home with me where I thought oh, wow, I'm, I'm.

Speaker 1:

I'm a little out of line with how I'm talking to my husband. Oh yeah, I would say that would be a pretty big aha moment yes, it was. But also embracing the inner work that is needed to embrace the more softer side and that's true for all types, right, Like getting to a place where you know you're more accepting of how you were created to be. Right, we're all different and we can embrace one another's difference when we apply some of these principles. And so, again, thank you for sharing that, Thank you for saying that, because I want people of all types to hear that you know accepting how you are and growing and changing and transforming. Yes, yeah, so, um, kind of on those lines. What is what do you love most about being a type eight?

Speaker 2:

Well, I do like my high energy level. Um, I mean, I I get things done and I have the ability to be pretty concise with making decisions. And you know, throughout my career and being a leader at different times, you know, I learned the skills of, you know, stepping back and not reacting right away and thinking things through. But once I go through that process, I'm able to make a decision and move forward. I don't have a whole lot of vacillation about that.

Speaker 2:

So, I really do like that and I do like my ability to speak up with people and you know nowadays making sure I do it in an appropriate way. I like figuring things out. I like coming up with solutions. I'm proud of my pursuit of justice, you know, and caring for other people that I've demonstrated throughout my career. So I mostly like being innate.

Speaker 1:

Okay, yeah, the way you describe that. I've seen all of that in you, right? Eights are incredible at getting things done and without spending too much time in the minutia of what might need to be put together in order to get something done, they move. Eights move really fast, and so the challenge for eights is are you moving too fast? Right? It's like where can you check in with yourself of, like, is this actually a good thing to be doing? Should I be doing this?

Speaker 1:

And so that's the challenge, right, the strength is like oh, aids gets stuff done and they move with a force and an energy and people are very attracted to that energy. But the challenge is are you moving with too much force and kind of knocking people over in the process? Right, that's the strength and the challenge. Yes, so really love the way you described that, and so I think, with this next question, what do you find most challenging about being a type eight? Might be a little along those lines little along those lines.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, definitely Me, slowing down is kind of hard Me just giving myself permission to rest. I've really tried to learn to double down on healthy boundaries with people. You know, not everybody's problem is my problem to solve, you know, and just learning to sit with other people's discomfort has been, like, really important for me to learn, because I think sometimes, with that frenetic energy to solve everybody else's problems, um, you know, maybe I'm serving myself that I don't want anybody to be uncomfortable. So just slowing down in that way too, um, slowing down in that way too, yeah, so that's a really, that's a really impressive insight.

Speaker 1:

Can you say a little bit more about where does the discomfort come from?

Speaker 2:

Where does the discomfort come from? Well, it's probably we haven't talked about this, but I do think my stronger wing has always been a nine, where that wanting things to be peaceful. Like you know, being an eight, you know I'm okay with conflict and I can take on conflict, but then I want peace, you know, and I I want everybody to be happy and to be calm and to be okay with me. Like I mean, even even though I might be taking someone on um, you know, being an eight, I don't want them to be mad at me after I do that. I, you know, being an aide, I don't want them to be mad at me after I do that. I, you know.

Speaker 2:

I remember being a boss when I was at the probation office and you know I took my role so seriously, wanting to give really good feedback, support my officers, make them better, help them get promoted. But not everybody takes feedback in a positive way, no matter how hard you try to give it in a positive way. And then with that, if I felt like someone didn't like me afterwards it kind of bothered me a little bit, not not enough to keep me from doing my job or believing in what I was doing was right and that's kind of that piece that you're asking me about being in touch with my own discomfort and sitting with it and just not pushing people Not pushing for a solution, not pushing for everyone else to feel good and comfortable.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you for sharing that. Like for being vulnerable, because I know that that that is also a challenge for AIDS is to be is to be vulnerable to go.

Speaker 2:

Oh, wait a minute, Like I am tender right.

Speaker 1:

There's a real, a real very sensitive tenderness inside of AIDS, that A real very sensitive tenderness inside of eights that a lot of people miss because of this very energetic bold exterior, right, but eights are big softies, big, big softies on the inside.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I agree with that, yeah, yeah. So thank you for displaying some vulnerability there. So, with this really intense energy that we've been talking about, how do you see that playing out in your day-to-day life and can you give maybe an example of how this energy really shows up in just an average, let's say, an average Tuesday like today? Recording on a Tuesday, you know how? Might that energy show up for you today.

Speaker 2:

Well, you know, every day I love mornings. Every day I wake up, have my coffee. It's, it's the biggest treat in the world that first sip of coffee and I'm all over my day. I'm thinking all right, when am I, you know? Am I going to go meet my friends and play pickleball? You know what appointments do I have if I'm working and you know I can tend to overschedule myself. But you know, even before I found the Enneagram, you know, I knew, I knew 25 years ago, that I had intense energy and, um, I knew I had to get a grip on it, you know. And so back then I even started my yoga practice. I'm very committed to my yoga Aerobic exercise. I knew I had to calm my body down, and part of it is to help me sleep at night. I would say, probably this crazy energetic intensity that I have is not really a friend of good sleep.

Speaker 1:

Not, I can imagine so.

Speaker 2:

So I already was to, um, really having to be careful of my lifestyle, how I schedule myself and, um, you know, just try to slow down, um. But again, I think that's another reason I'm so grateful to the Enneagram teachings is that it's like oh my God, I'm suddenly making some sense to myself.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

You know right, it's like oh, no wonder I'm like this Right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and again it's like yeah, no wonder I'm like this and oh now, oh, so I can do something. I can do something with this. Yes, yeah, and I love what you said because we haven't addressed it. But the eight is in the body center, right, that eight, nine and one is the body center, and so you're a body type and all of this intensity, all of this energy, it had to come out of the body somehow. Yes, right, so in order to sleep, you're like I have to expend this energy. It's there. So eights are very active, they're moving. They often have a hard time sitting, still not being, not focusing on a project of some kind. You know, like just this, and so if other aides that are listening can hear that, you know, if you are having trouble sleeping, like, where in your life can you expend some energy? Is it an exercise? Like exercise is an excellent place to do that, and I love you know, I know you love your pickleball.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, my pickleball.

Speaker 1:

Your pickleball and your yoga and you know, but that meditation.

Speaker 2:

I am a big meditator.

Speaker 1:

But in that direct correlation that it is helpful to your sleep.

Speaker 2:

Totally yeah, because sleep, sleep is the foundation of our mental health, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yes, if we're tired, we have a really hard time making sense of things Right, because we're just diminished capacity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, but you know, on the same note, I think it's important for me to touch on this too, on this too, like part of how I knew I was an eight. It was easier for me to find my center of intelligence and I knew right away I was a body type, you know, because your point about eights can be confused with twos I knew. All my life I've been this instinctual kind of person, intuitive person, and even when I would train my officers I would say what do you feel in your gut? And so the body was a big part of me knowing I was eight too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like just that visceral knowing yeah, right, yes, yes, the body was a big part of me knowing I was eight too.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, like just that visceral knowing yeah, right, yes, yes, yeah, yeah. So the centers of intelligence or centers of energy is a good place for people to kind of start to explore, especially if they're having a hard time locating what their type is. It's like oh, take a step back, are you more like what you just described? You're just a knowing. It's a knowing in your body about what the right direction to go is and that energy that comes with that, the heart. It's a very heart type energy.

Speaker 1:

It's like I'm always, as a heart type, looking what is the emotional and relational connection that I'm having with the world around me? It doesn't even have to be with a person in front of me, it's just what is my emotion, my relationship with the world around me comes from that energy in the heart and the head center. The five, six and seven, you know they're processing everything through that kind of mental center. What is the strategy, what are the questions? What is the analysis? What is the? You know, ask. They all ask a lot of questions and think heavy. They have like a heavy head, right, you can sometimes know that you're talking to a head center when they look up.

Speaker 1:

Right, they're thinking all the time and they're kind of looking up and they might even lift their head or they might go like this, like it's just this heaviness in the head. So that's a good place to start too, if people are having a hard time kind of locating themselves in the types themselves. Yeah, yeah, I'm glad that you brought that up. So, moving on to another aspect of type eight is what we call the defense mechanisms. Each type has a primary defense mechanism, not just one, but one that is more primary, and for the eight the defense mechanism is denial. So how would you define denial, and can you give an example of that in your life?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when I was thinking about that. I think that how denial manifests in me is through my overly optimistic view of life.

Speaker 1:

Oh, interesting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, where, if I'm just overly optimistic, things really aren't as bad as they are. And you know, when I was thinking about that question, I contacted my three kids and I said hey guys, you know I'm, I'm getting ready to them, I think that it's my overly optimistic views. And all three of them didn't even take 10 seconds, said absolutely that you are overly optimistic and when you do that, you, you know, you, we come to you and you, you don't allow others to live in their own reality of their sadness or validate their feelings and meet them where they are. Sometimes people want to vent and feel and not have solutions or optimism. In that moment I was reading what they were saying that's the feedback that your kids gave you.

Speaker 2:

That's what they and they all agreed that I you know my Emily, who also is really into the Enneagram I don't think you slow down and let yourself feel you are so wired to take care of others and deny yourself everything or others proper feelings. You think that you're very strong, which you are, but it's okay to let others be there for you sometimes too.

Speaker 1:

Yes, oh, that's so. That is such a sweet I the fact. Well, first, the fact that you just asked your kids, right, and you gave them space and you gave them permission to answer you honestly, yeah, the way that they, that is one of the biggest gifts we can give our children, Right, and I say this often to people when you especially to children who are becoming adults, in that transition stage where they start to come into some more awareness of their own and maybe what might be affecting them in their life, to be able to come and say, hey, mom or dad, this is how I experienced you as a parent and how I am experiencing you as a parent, and not to get defensive about that, right, but just to hear it and let it be a place where relationship can grow stronger and deeper and more real. And so I love that you did that. I love that they felt safe enough to be honest with you, enough to be honest with you.

Speaker 1:

And what you described is a very common experience for people who are coming in contact with AIDS, right, and I've heard I mean I've heard you say many, many times okay, here's what we're going to do, okay, here's what we're going to do yeah, yeah, right, and it is so. It's coming from that place of justice, that justice driven, wanting everyone to be safe and happy. But also, what I hear you describing is I don't want to be uncomfortable with, I don't want to be. I also don't want to be faced with your discomfort, right, right. And so let's get to action, like let's come on people, let's move on, right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah. And you know, what I liked about this exchange with my kids is that I could even measure some of my progress with my inner work on the Enneagram, Because, like 10 years ago, you know, I may have asked them that and I may have, on the outside, tried to graciously accept it, but like this time I could be open enough to say you guys are right To see one of my blind spots, and not get defensive or try to justify their answer and not really integrate. It know is where in the past I might have made excuses or, you know, been a little peeved at them for not thinking I've been the perfect mother. Yeah, so so so that felt good. I mean I didn't feel hurt at all. I, I thought, felt good, I mean I didn't feel hurt at all.

Speaker 1:

I I thought yeah, I think they're right. So now you can take that and use that as a reflection, right, a self-reflection, and, like you said, integrate it. So how, how would a type, how would you you know, pretty far along in your Enneagram growth journey take that feedback and how would you integrate it?

Speaker 2:

Well, I mean, really it's pretty liberating for me because they're saying to me we don't need you to solve our problems, we don't need you to come up with strategies, come up with strategies, just hear us out. And you know, if I can take that at safe value, that takes a lot off my shoulders Because that lustful intensity of me, you know, you know I'd be running around coming up with solutions. So you know I'm trying to integrate it in a very positive way. And okay, these are good, respectable adults and I need to behave in that way with them and trust them. Trust that they know what's best for them, and just listen.

Speaker 1:

Trusting that they know what's best for them.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, cause I think sometimes eight struggle with that, thinking they know better than everybody else.

Speaker 1:

Yeah Well, I think that that's really beautiful. Yeah Well, I think that that's really beautiful and I'm glad that you were able to have that conversation with them, and so thank you for sharing Again. Thank you for sharing that. And again, another example of vulnerability, which is very hard for eights to show any kind of vulnerability physical vulnerability, emotional vulnerability, you know, and for those of you that have a person that is a type eight in your life, try to remember that, try to remember that it's hard for them.

Speaker 1:

And so when an eight is being vulnerable, give them space to do that, encourage them to do that, make the eight feel safe. You make everybody else feel safe. Right, we need to help, we need to create a space where you feel safe. Yeah, and I have to accept it. Right, yeah, yeah, um, so we kind of alluded a little bit to you, said you know the passion of lust. Um, how would you define the passion of lust, which is the prime? So the passion of type is the emotional driver. Right, it's the primary emotional driver of the type. Mine is envy, yours is lust. How would you, in a simple way, define lust?

Speaker 2:

Well, for me, how it plays out and this took me a while to figure out, because I'm of pushing, pushing things through, that I think are right.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's an excess for stimulation, yeah, a desire for an excess amount of stimulation, whatever that stimulation might be, like you said. You know it doesn't have to be alcohol or food or drugs or anything, right, yeah, it's just in life itself there is a desire for excess of stimulation and an impatience for things to be satisfied, like an impatience for things to be done.

Speaker 2:

That is a good point. The impatience part, and then being overly controlling, trying to control everything.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, one of the key traits of type eight is the need to control the environment.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And the reason is because of that not wanting to be vulnerable, not wanting to be perceived as weak. So in order to do that, that, then you've got to control the environment right, and with a really big energy, like we talked about. They come in with a force, like you can feel it in the air when an eight comes into the room, right, and so it's like they're not just controlling the environment with their words, they're controlling the environment with their very presence and so just, you know being aware of that, and but it's for, it's because they want to feel safe. It all comes down to safety, of feeling safe, and if you're in control of things, you feel safer. Right, right, right.

Speaker 1:

And that kind of primal, even the most primal self-preservation way. We want to feel safe as human beings and we use these strategies in our lives to do that. I do that by in relationships, like, I use the relationships in my life to help me feel safe. And it's very unconscious, right. I'm not saying I'm like manipulating and doing it that way Is there manipulation?

Speaker 1:

Can there be manipulation in it? Yes, there can be manipulation in it, right, but underneath, unconscious, it's just because I want to feel safe in the world. Yes, yes, and relationships help me feel safe. Knowledge and intellectual stimulation helps head types feel safe. If they know the answer, they feel safer. Body types want to control their environment in some way because it makes them feel safer. Body types want to control their environment in some way because it makes them feel safer. And so I like to just kind of pull those things together and help people see that there's always a reason, right, there's always a reason that people are the way that they are, and if we can come to people with a little bit more of an open mind, open heart, open arms, we're all going to be better off Totally.

Speaker 2:

Well, to me, I do feel like that is one of the gifts of the Enneagram, where it really has opened my eyes and helped me cultivate patience within myself, especially as a parent with my children, who are all different Enneagram types than me to realize, oh wow, they just really see the world through different eyes and their approach is different. And you know they're not purposely trying to annoy me or disrespect me in any way. This is them being them. So I feel like it's really helped me with that, not only parenting, but even other people in my life just thinking oh wow, you know, they, they see the world, they experience the world in a much different way than I do, and that, too is kind of liberating, because you, you stop taking everything personal.

Speaker 1:

Right, yeah, because it's okay that they experience the world differently than you. Right, right, that's okay, yeah, don't have to take. We don't have to take things so personally. But well, um, before we go, is there anything else that you would like people to know about type eights and um, anything else that, for people that have friends or family that are type eights in their lives, what is, um, what's a gift they can give their type eight? Um?

Speaker 2:

you know, probably I like it when people just are direct back with me. You know, just cut to the chase and tell me what you need to tell me. I appreciate that and I respect people when they talk to me that way and you know I'm not going to take it in a hard way. So I really like people just to give me the facts quickly. I'm laughing because my father, who's passed away, you know, we'd be talking and I'd annoy him sometimes and he'd be going on about something and I'd say, well, what's your source on that, what are the facts? And then during the next conversation he'd say I just want to say beforehand, don't ask me what my source and facts are. So yeah, I think one of the biggest gifts that eights appreciate is just somebody to be real with them. Yeah, real direct.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, just cut like you. You said cut to the chase like you don't need to fluff, you don't need to get fluffy with me, right?

Speaker 2:

yeah, you just tell me yeah, just tell me what you need me to do, what you don't want me to do, and I get it, and my feelings won't be hurt yeah, well, that's it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that that's an excellent place, and I think it's an excellent like for you to be a type eight and for sharing the type eight woman perspective, and for those of you out there that have type eight women in your life, I hope that this helps you understand them better and love them better.

Speaker 2:

So there are perfectly said. Wendy say no. I just want to thank you and this is an honor to be a part of each other's journey on the. Enneagram. So thank you you're very welcome.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, teresa. I will talk to you soon, okay okay, take care bye, bye.