Your Enneagram Friend
Your Enneagram Friend podcast is where engaging, casual, and irresistibly fun conversations meet deep, thought-provoking discussions about the Enneagram.
In each episode, I invite my "friends" to dive into the fascinating world of the Enneagram with me, exploring how this ancient tool illuminates our personalities, strengthens our relationships, and guides us on the path to personal growth. Whether you're an Enneagram expert or just curious about what your type might mean for you, there's a place for you here.
So, grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's start the journey of discovery together. Welcome, friends, to a space where the Enneagram doesn't just inspire us—it connects us.
Hosted by Wendy Busby, Enneagram Life + Relationship Coach
Your Enneagram Friend
Exploring Relationship Growth with Type Nine and Four
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Imagine discovering a tool that not only helps you understand yourself but also transforms your marriage. That’s what my husband Josh and I experienced with the Enneagram. Join us on "Your Enneagram Friend" as we unravel the intricate dance between a Type Nine and a Type Four, sharing heartfelt stories from our 23-year journey. From Josh’s revelation of his conflict-averse Type Nine tendencies to my Type Four need for deep emotional connection, we offer a candid look at how understanding these dynamics has helped our relationship.
Ever wondered how love languages and family dynamics intertwine with the Enneagram? We unpack the unique traits of each type and their impact on marriage. We dive into personal anecdotes, like how our Type Four and Type Nine traits shape our interactions and growth. You'll hear how our different approaches — from testing relationship security to seeking peace — have created opportunities for deeper understanding and stronger bonds.
Our journey doesn’t stop at understanding; it’s about growing together. We reflect on the importance of effective communication, mutual support, and the conscious choice to love and appreciate each other’s unique qualities. With stories of personal growth and moments of gratitude, we share how staying curious about each other has deepened our intimacy and commitment. Tune in for a heartfelt glimpse into our evolving relationship and let our experiences inspire your own journey of growth and love.
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Hello and welcome to the your Enneagram Friend podcast, where you're invited into an engaging and thought-provoking conversation about the Enneagram. I'm Wendy Busby, your very own life and relationship coach, here to inspire you to have a more fulfilling relationship with yourself and the important people in your life. So today, as you can see, got something different going on. Today. I'm joined by my husband, josh. Hello, josh.
Speaker 2:Am I not talking to?
Speaker 1:him. No, anyways, we're going to share with you about how the Enneagram has helped in our marriage and you'll get kind of that inside. Look into what it's like for a type nine and a type four to be in an intimate relationship. Okay, now you can talk. Okay, all right Say hi.
Speaker 2:Hello everybody.
Speaker 1:All right, Josh, start by telling our listeners a little bit about who you are, what you do and what you hope that they get out of the conversation today.
Speaker 2:Great, okay, that's yeah, that's way better. I'm Josh. I've been married to, to your lovely host, for how long has it been 23?
Speaker 1:years, 23 years.
Speaker 2:And I'm from a cornfield in Illinois. It was great. It was like growing up in Stranger Things, great buddies, and we had a blast and joined the Marines, ultimately met Wendy out in California. I worked for the Marines. I was a helicopter pilot for nine years and got out, and now I work for the Marines, a Marine aviation school that's here and that's what I do.
Speaker 1:So let's shift to talking about the Enneagram, because that's what this podcast is about, the Enneagram and let's talk about what it was like for you to discover your Enneagram, type type nine, which I said in the introduction. And what was that process like for you? What, like how did you come to figure out that you're a type nine?
Speaker 2:Well, I started with the book the Road Back to you.
Speaker 1:As many do.
Speaker 2:You read it. I don't know exactly how you found it. I wasn't in a great spot in my life I think that's probably true for both of us but you found this great thing. That was, I was really seeing a change in Wendy and she said I think you should read this book. And first he came out of the bedroom crying because she's like I know what my type is. She read it and knew immediately. But I read it and thought sure I knew what type I was.
Speaker 1:And then I thought what do you think you were I?
Speaker 2:can't remember if I thought I was a six first or a seven first, but one of the two.
Speaker 1:I think you thought you were a six first. Yeah, I thought I was a six.
Speaker 2:first Because I have some six tendencies, like every good helicopter pilot should and you know worst case scenario and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:But then some things came up that I thought maybe I was a seven and then finally I went ahead and paid for the I think it was the iq and I did it and as soon as we got the results we kind of looked at it together and both of us were like, oh yeah, you're a nine, and we really knew because it was the I I mean, I, I. It really hit home to me because of my tendency to merge and, more specifically, my conflict avoidance. Many of you might be surprised at this, because I've thought a lot in my life. There are times when I'm not afraid of conflict at all, but most of the time in my personal relationships, I am very conflict, very conflict averse, and I'll do or say almost anything to avoid a conflict.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that kind of depends on the closeness of the relationship. The closer in the relationship is to the nine, the more conflict avoidant they are, the more external the relationships are. May or may not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's difficulty with conflict and that that was specifically that that created some problems in our marriage, because the the closest person to me is you and I was willing to do anything to avoid a conflict with you, and that's not showing up to the relationship.
Speaker 1:That's not having a voice, it's not being there, and that's that's what I I learned, and it is still difficult, um to to say what I want, or even know what I want, um, but I'm getting better at it, I hope yeah, I mean so early on and just to clarify this was like really early on in my own exploration of the Enneagram, like I was barely just learning about it and, you know, figured out my type, and then I was like, wow, I really want to know what Josh's type is, because I could just see how beneficial it would be for that deeper, the deeper understanding that the Enneagram really brings, not only to understanding yourself but like to really understanding other people. And I think what I said was I went to you and I said I really want you to figure out your type because I want to know how to love you better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember some manipulation in that she gave me instructions on how to be loved better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's in my brain so yeah, but with the nine being conflict adverse to especially the person that they're closest with, can really, um, can really really cause some issues in a relationship. Um, because conflict is a necessary part of relationship. It's like when there's no conflict it's just as unhealthy is when there's too much conflict. So relationships need that friction, that heat, to like kind of think it. One way to describe it is think about lifting weights. When you're lifting weights, you're creating micro tears in your muscle and when it heals it gets stronger. Well, that's what conflict does for a relationship. It creates little tensions, little disruptions, and then the repair it creates a stronger bond in the relationship. And so when we have a type nine who's very conflict adverse, and a type four being me, who isn't conflict adverse, um, that creates some tension. Like I want to bring things forward, like let's just talk about it, let's get it out, like let's, let's work it out, and so when she's ready yes, I mean I need some time.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's gotten better, better at that but I I would much prefer like let's just get it all out onto the table. Let's be honest, and even the smallest critical feedback the way it's interpreted as critical feedback can feel like conflict to a nine, and so they will retreat, and so that's a big thing. That has helped us in our marriage. Using the Enneagram has helped us navigate conflict. I know that I can. I have to be slower, more careful and gentler in my approach to like let's work things out and give Josh some time and invite him and reassure him that hey, this is just, we're okay, like our relationship is solid, like we're good. I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you don't mind me saying something about that. I um, I really first noticed this way before the enneagram I was, I honestly went to some counseling because I was, I was angry at, I was angry all the time. I didn't know what to do with it, which makes sense, because that's that's what a nine's dominant emotion is. But the only people I was really I would take it out on, that anger would would come out on to my shame, is my, my sons, and it the the thing that the counselor told me at the time because I was telling her about this that I can, I can be walking to the door after a drive home from work, psyching myself up that I'm not going to yell no matter what I see, Even though I knew when I opened that door, Wendy was going to be probably locked in a room out of exasperation with the kids and they were going to be sitting around the living room throwing food all over the place and in a huge mess not doing homework.
Speaker 2:And I knew that I was going to see that. But I was like I'm not going to yell about that today. And then, as I was reached for the door, as soon as I touched the door, opened it up, I forgot it all and just started yelling. And what she told me that really was amazing to me was you must be really secure in how much they love you. You are not afraid you're going to lose them, but you're afraid you're going to lose everybody else. And she was dead right. And that when I heard that I began to make a change, to make a change, and now, when I became a nine, I started to realize that that insecurity was was something that I had to deal with because I wasn't showing up to any of my relationships in a healthy way.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I'm glad you bring that up because it's important, I think, to highlight what you said. There was like with the kids you weren't afraid of losing them, like you felt really secure in the race, but you were afraid of losing me right, and that's exactly right like if I, um, if I bring any any disappointment to the table, then wendy's gonna get upset and leave me right, or? You know, the kids are upsetting her and I don't want her to be upset about anything. So let me try to control the kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and my, my rational mind told me differently, but I could not, I couldn't make it work. Um, but the you know, the the sad part, and I, my, my kids are so amazing because, quite frankly, they had great cause not to have relationship with me, um, and that's not the case, thank goodness. Cause not to have a relationship with me? That's not the case, thank goodness.
Speaker 1:Since we're talking about the kids, how has the Enneagram helped us in parenting? Even though it came to us later, our kids were teenagers or a little bit earlier. How has it helped us in our parenting?
Speaker 2:Well, I think once I little bit earlier, but like so, how has it helped us in our parenting? Well, I, I think I once I really understood that and and the enneagram started to give me. Once I learned about, the enneagram started to give me the tools not to fly off the handle about anything, and um, so I, I don't, I used to fly off the handle all the time and I don't do that anymore, and I think that was one of the biggest things I was able to. I was able to have a relationship with my kids that Kind of put us. They could begin to trust that dad's not going to blow up and that's, that's. That was a big deal. There was a barrier in our relationship because they they knew they weren't getting the real me, they were just getting angry dad, that's it.
Speaker 1:And so and our kids are different than us, as all kids are, and so I wouldn't know it by any picture.
Speaker 1:But Learning not just about, you know, type nine and type four to help us with our relationship, but learning about all the types, because our kids are not, you know, not the same type as us. Well, we have one that's the same type as me, and maybe one that's the same type as josh we're not sure yet with him but, um, but anyways, like everyone's different and so it's a really, really beautiful tool to use in our relationships. Um, yeah, so that's what I think.
Speaker 2:That's all we'll say about parenting yeah, we're probably never going to write a parenting book. What well, I'm not gonna write the book but okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So um krista harden, she's a marriage and family therapist who uses the any round a lot in her work, and here's what she says about the love languages of each type. Okay, so she says type four if you love a type four, remember that they will test you to see if you love them when the relationship feels uncertain. And if you love a type nine, they are the most gentle and peaceable and other focused agreeable type, disagreeable type and they tend to merge with the feelings of others.
Speaker 1:And so how has, how have you experienced me in testing you to see if our relationship is secure?
Speaker 2:You just make stuff up. Sometimes you just like today we're going to fight, I'm going to create an obstacle course and Josh is going to have to navigate through it and see if he loves me, and but it goes. I mean, it kind of goes back. It feels like I've described this kind of thing and that they're not all made up, but there are a few times that you mix them up.
Speaker 1:It's.
Speaker 2:yeah, I know You're just like I think we need to. I need conflicted. Yeah, I know you're just like I think we need. I need to think I need to fight, um, but I, I used to feel like there were, she would put a like a wall up, a huge brick wall, and I had to jump over it and, and you know, I, I never looked at those opportunities. I looked at them as opportunities, not not barriers. Yeah, and I I couldn't. I was like, ooh, I got a, I got a brick wall that I can jump over and honestly, I think, since I've learned about the Enneagram, that's not so energizing of an option anymore. Sometimes.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't think there is. My walls aren't as thick.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, we, it's. We're both the type I'm describing. We both were not in a very healthy place, um, so I was looking for any opportunity to um to do that, but I, I think that, um, it keeps it interesting because, you know, I, I describe sloth for me, sloth is my. What is it? My passion? My god, so many things to be passionate about in the world.
Speaker 2:I'm passionate about sloth, but I'm really good at sloth, um, so he doesn't like it, but, um, and he's pretty strong. So I, I, I it's, it's an opportunity to do things and it it's helped me discover. The tests that you have given me have not just given me opportunities to show you that I love you, but it's also helped me figure out things that I want to do in my life. I mean, I feel like I'm at a point right now where I'm starting to say I want to do this, and Whitney almost doesn't know what to think of it. It seems like sometimes because like, oh my gosh, does he really want to do this, and and and I'm being able to not only know, identify what I want to do, but articulate that and make plans for it and buy the required equipment for it and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because up until I'm scaring you, I'm talking about hiking. That's what we're talking about, but up until a few years ago, like I really made most, if not all, of the decisions in our relationship and so for him to start to really come into himself and what he wants and desires and like. Take action on that. Um, it feels a little strange sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I still don't get to pick where we. I still don't get to pick that.
Speaker 1:Well, you don't really care where we eat most of the time.
Speaker 2:I kind of do.
Speaker 1:I kind of do now but what I'm, what I'm talking about here in this, like how a four will test people to see if they love them and if, um, especially if they feel uncertain in the relationship.
Speaker 1:Um, that's a pretty unhealthy behavior and I would not say that I I don't do that in the same way as I used to. Um, it was pretty unconscious for me, but really what what mattered to me in those times was Josh's like relentless pursuit of me, like he was just not going to let me go, he was not going to give up on pursuing me. And that is something that I really value in my relationships is like I tell. I tell my friends hey, if you haven't heard from me in a while, like can you reach out? Cause I'm probably overly emotional and I'm hiding and I need someone to come find me. I need someone to come draw me out and like say, hey, are you okay? Like what's going on, and don't let me just say I'm fine, like, because if I say I'm fine, I'm lying to you like she's never fine, not, not everyone's supposed to ask that question.
Speaker 1:Or I'm okay, like you know, if I've withdrawn, like I need some time to talk about how I'm feeling, talk about what's going on. But what I did was I created these walls out of protection for myself, because that's just the pattern I learned growing up. Like I learned to keep all my emotions inside, to keep what was bothering to me to myself, and I needed someone to come really, really, really hard after me to like pull me out of that and to know that, like they're not going anywhere, like I always knew, like you know you're not going anywhere, and so now I feel much safer, more secure to like bring the things that I'm dealing with to you before I retreat. Like I just don't even see that I do that much anymore in our relationship.
Speaker 2:In our relationship. No, yeah, it's. It's not because, honestly, I think that it got to a point where you have you have to. Let me go back. We've always been able to talk. It may not have been something that we could do quickly, it may have been painful, but we have always been able to sit down as friends and talk. At one point in our marriage, the really the only thing that we had was a friendship, and and even in that it was a dark time, and even in that really dark time I think we were still good friends.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I tell people that all the time, you know, because marriages go through ups and downs. I mean, if you've been married for 23 years and never had a low point, like you know, I would question that like it's just a natural part of of marriage, it's a natural part of relationships. And when we were in, um, I would say we've had like two, probably two kind of extended periods of time where things were a big struggle. And I tell people like it was really our friendship that sustained us through those periods of time, because we have, we've always been able to talk about random things or laugh or whatever.
Speaker 1:And deep and important things. But when the relationship issues were kind of off the table because we weren't, we just weren't ready or we weren't there, we weren't able to. Other things were interesting for us to talk about, other things were interesting for us to talk about and that really sustained us through those periods of time until we could get the help we need, whether that was through therapy or we then had the tools ourselves. The first time it was we. We needed therapy and this kind of second iteration iteration a few years back, like we had the tools we needed and that period of time was much shorter then.
Speaker 2:And the good part is that the one thing everybody asks me, oh, what's Wendy doing? I say, have you heard of the Enneagram? And they're like, oh no, I don't know what that is. Or, yeah, I've heard of it. And what I tell them, the testimonial I give them, is that it gave us a new language to speak to. What it's like I've been thinking about. It's like the rosetta stone, as far as I'm concerned, of me finally understanding what she's, what she means, what she's talking about, and her beginning to understand my, what I'm saying and our motivations for each other. And that was really difficult. I I was not afraid to to relentlessly pursue Wendy when, when she was down, because I understood the backstory, but now I understand how, that, that, how she's feeling right now and, um, and it's complex, it's complex, complex. I don't know who was. She told me I'm a, I'm a four, and she's like I don't want to be a four. And I'm like, okay, well, that's great. Now I'm just like whoa, that's about the hardest one you can get.
Speaker 1:I think everyone thinks that about their time but um, but yeah, fours are emotional and we're complex and and you hit your emotions so I knew they were there.
Speaker 2:But that's, that's been a big change in our, in our relationship. Not only, yeah, she was. I have to give her space for her emotions and I realized the value of it. It's not just a, you know, like a 90s sitcom emotional annoyance, it's. It's real and must be played out. It has to be played out and a lot of times that feeds my thought process of do I want to actually engage in conflict right now?
Speaker 1:Because I may not have the energy.
Speaker 2:But I've been able to pick and choose and I think the more real you are as a nine who does not want conflict. If you're, if you show up and are willing to engage in conflict, you don't have to get engaged in as many planned or imaginary conflicts.
Speaker 1:Yeah and a big thing for fours is feeling understood. Right is feeling understood, and so in expressing how I feel or whatever's going on, like I need the other person, I need to feel understood by the other person. I don't need the other person, I need to feel understood by the other person. I don't need the other person to agree with me or to even feel the same way that I feel. I just need them to like give me space to feel what I feel and then it will move on. And I am getting much better at just let just feeling misunderstood and that that's okay. Like it's okay for the other person not to fully understand and that's big growth for me. It's not easy at all, but some people, some relationships, um, they're just not there and that's okay like hey, um, it's a different.
Speaker 1:It's got that relationship kind of goes into a different category and and feeling misunderstood can happen.
Speaker 2:But it's an evolution as well. I mean, I there's. There's no relationship that I think that will benefit from, benefit from the Enneagram. And once you do understand your type and your partner's type, you're also going to face new and different challenges with the as you grow together in your relationship. Because you know, I, the, the. I had an example and I totally forgot what it was.
Speaker 1:That's okay.
Speaker 2:But maybe the good Lord was like no, I don't want you to say that Anyway, but it was useful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so that's a little bit about like the love language of a four and the love language If you love a nine, like to know that they're agreeable and peaceable. And the merging, the merging especially because Josh is a sexual nine, like sexual nines merge the most, and what does that mean? It's really like a fusion. It's like he didn't sense himself as separate from me and it was like I've heard other sexual nines describe it as, like my eyes are the other's eyes, like seeing the world through the eyes of the other. And so if I feel something, josh feels something. If I like something, josh likes something. If I'm doing this, josh does this. And it was, it was. It feels smothering, like it feels we've worked through this.
Speaker 2:It's okay, it feels smothering, but then when you say no, I don't want to do that. She's like what?
Speaker 1:don't love me and it's. You know, there are times like I need some space, like give me, give me some space because it it feels smothering and it's like just make a decision, like what is it that you want? You know, what do you think? And that has been. I've seen you really, really grow in that area of of having your own opinion and challenging me in what I think, because you're like you would just agree all the time and I'm, you know when I okay. So this is kind of funny, like when I first, when we first learned about this and when we first discovered that Josh was a nine, I was like Hmm why don't know if I like this so much?
Speaker 1:because this has worked out pretty well for me. I get everything I want, everything goes my way, so she was like.
Speaker 2:Can you stay an unhealthy nine?
Speaker 1:No, I didn't want that, but it was a big. I remember her telling me that very thing, because it was a big revelation of like, oh wow, I really do Like I am the one that's in charge here.
Speaker 2:And it's actually a, and that's that's funny. You say that because it's actually a little bit of a struggle, because she still wants to be in charge and like, if we are having an argument and risking getting in trouble for this, if we're, if we're going to, if we're having any type of conflict or disagreement, what I consider conflict she would consider as normal communication. Possibly, and I've hurt her feelings in some way or been insensitive in some way. I'm that is.
Speaker 2:Whatever I did is probably me showing up in the relationship, me putting sloth in its place and showing up in the relationship. And then she will tell me that I completely have the, I have the right to feel the way I want to feel, and that it feels like the conflict is elevated. And then I have to, I have to deal with that because it feels like the right decision just created another conflict. And then I have the um, the thought of well, I don't want it. If I'm just going to create more conflicts, I'm not doing any good. Why do I want to keep doing this? You know what I mean. So it's a. It's a constant struggle inside to put sloth in its place and show up for the relationship, and I don't like that part at all, but it is, it's true.
Speaker 1:It is true.
Speaker 2:I think that's. That's probably my part about it, because I and I don't know if this is true for other nines but it said that when you find out your Enneagram type you're, you don't. Nobody wants to be the Enneagram type they are.
Speaker 1:It didn't really bother me to be a nine.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, that's actually pretty cool, you know. I had some people in my mind that I thought were nines and I was like, oh, I don't mind that at all, but the I feel I am probably in a better place when I am a little uncomfortable with the amount of conflict.
Speaker 1:So that you know. So, getting more nine specific, like what has been one thing that you have implemented into your life that has really helped? Like what's what? Yeah, that has really helped you Well.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure if this is the answer you're looking for, but in my mind, the biggest impact I've had, the biggest, the thing I've done that has the biggest impact on me, is physical activity. I am, I think, about the best times in my life and I was extremely physically active as a, you know, in high school and in college I was always playing intramurals or, you know, sports and and so on and so forth. Then I joined the Marine Corps and you think, oh wow, marines, you just continue right on. No, you don't. Everybody sits at a desk and and then we go out for our PFT. We're all ashamed because we just didn't take the time to go pt. Now, it's not true for all marines and, uh, hopefully, hopefully that's not, but in my case I I just was out of the habit you got by with as little as I did the bare minimum, which is something I'm ashamed of.
Speaker 2:I'm in better shape at 50 years old now than I was at than I was for most of my Marine Corps career. And it started out with going to the gym and I have a good buddy I work out with two good buddies that I work out with three times a week in the morning, and that was a challenge for me, but I stuck with it and then I started. I don't know what got into me, I can't remember what caused it, but I like to run, so I would run sometimes, but I never really could be all that consistent with it. But then I started walking and so at night, after I eat, wendy typically go to bed earlier than me and I'll put my sheet. I live in Arizona. It's beautiful all the time, and so I put on my shoes and go out and walk, and I think maybe my motivation was I feel like God was calling me to pray up at our church. We have a. The church is beautiful. It sits on a hillside and there's this old, rugged wooden cross out there.
Speaker 1:We live just a little.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we live about a mile and a half from it. There we live just a little. Yeah, we live about a mile and a half from it and, um, I, I just would come out of church and I would always look over at that cross and I would think I, I'm not all that consistent in my prayer life. I wonder if it, I wonder if it would help just to go to a place like that and be humbled and pray, and so I started walking up there at night and it just changed my life, just changed it completely, and I realized that those good times in my life were also the times that I was closest to God. I was um that there's a physical activity aspect to prayer and worship for me and and having my mind centered, and, um, I speak in Christian terms, obviously, but there are, there's, there's a spiritual, emotional, mental aspect of uh, of uh, or benefit from physical activity. That, um, that I have found is extremely important, and now I, I mean I, I crave it.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I'm obsessed with hiking well to to talk about the spiritual, like we're embodied creatures, right, we're not separate from our bodies, right, we're not separate from our bodies, and so using the body is an important mechanism of our, of our human experience.
Speaker 1:And you know, when we cut ourselves off at the neck and think that only our, that experience only, is happening inside of our head or the gray matter which we call brain, like we're missing out on a full embodied experience of living life and connecting with each other and connecting with other people, connecting with nature.
Speaker 1:And so one of the best things that nines can do for themselves is to first get alone, like they need to be by themselves, without any distractions, because that merging aspect, because of their energy, it's an energetic connection that they get to other people that can be difficult to break. And so they need to be alone, no distractions, and then using their body, whether that's working out. Going for walks, like doing yoga, is excellent for nines. Like using the body um, because they're in, you know, the body center. Eight nines and one are in the body center. Um, it's really important and I have seen you really grow and really change when you started to do that and I remember making the suggestion to you and you're like, okay, and then you would come back and be like oh, I listened to this podcast and I was listening to this podcast and.
Speaker 1:I said so. I just I hope I was gentle in my treatment to you. Maybe I wasn't, but I said the point is really about getting with your own thoughts like your own thoughts. I remember that conversation.
Speaker 2:I got mad and I was. I happened to be it was the second time I was going to go up there and I happened to be putting on my shoes we're talking about it and I was mad. I was like who the hell do you think you are to tell me how to do my walk? To tell me how to do my walk? I had a great time and I remember being so mad. I had my headphones on, I had my, I had my iPhone with me and I had my podcast all queued up and I was so mad.
Speaker 2:I started a podcast and I couldn't listen to it. I had to turn it off because I uh, and and this is I don't know if this is a nine thing, but we, we scream alone a lot, and so I yelled at Wendy all the way up to the church to the point that I made myself mad. I mean, it was just me ranting like a lunatic on the sidewalk, talking to myself and what you can get away with now because you have your headphones on, everybody thinks you're on the phone, so it's great, but no, I. I remember getting up to the church and having to stand before the cross and realizing how ridiculous I was being, and because I was trying to help.
Speaker 2:However, I'm aware that I need quiet time as well, so I always have a point that I turn off my podcast before I walk up there and begin my prayer time. I don't think I told you that I turn it off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you told me, you told me.
Speaker 2:And so you know, you do what you can do, right, right, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, well, I feel like I mean, we could talk forever. How?
Speaker 2:long has it been.
Speaker 1:I don't know, maybe 40 minutes or so Are we done.
Speaker 2:No, are you kicking me out? No, what did I say? Always in trouble?
Speaker 1:No, you're not Okay. So what do you? Okay, let's do this. I'm going to say, like, what I love most about being married to a nine, and then I'm going to ask you what you love most about being married to a four. Okay, and I can't say to ask you what you love most about being married to a four, okay, and I can't say, just because you're hot, I can't say that. You can say that, because I like that.
Speaker 1:But, you know.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what I love most about being married to a nine is some of those things we've already covered.
Speaker 1:Because you're so nice to me, like you have been well first of all, like you have taught me how to love, and you've been so patient with me and so gracious in our relationship to um stay when I was really struggling and I wanted to go. And it wasn't because I didn't love you, it wasn't because I didn't want our family, it was because I I just thought everyone would be better off without my particular version of crazy and I doing air quotes, cause not, but it was like I was so overwhelmed with my emotions, so overwhelmed by emotions, I did not know what to do with them. This was pre-therapy, pre Enneagram, but it was like I was so overwhelmed with my emotions, so overwhelmed with my emotions, I did not know what to do with them. This was pre-therapy, pre-enneagram, all of that, but I was so completely overwhelmed that I just thought that you know, everyone's going to be better if I'm not here, and so and you just stayed, you just relent in that relentless pursuit. And nines are very, very good at that. They stay especially.
Speaker 2:I'm the only one that gets to break my merch. Nobody else gets to break my merch.
Speaker 1:Well and and. It works when the other. It works when the other person is working on themselves too, because nines can have a tendency to stay in relationships too long too, like that is a thing right, and so, um, if a nine is in a relationship where it's really really not going anywhere and the other person has no interest at all in working on the relationship, like the nine needs to think hard about what is good for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard to do.
Speaker 1:And so in that period of time that served us, it served me, it served our marriage, the nine's willingness to stay, and they're kind of long, long, enduring in that way.
Speaker 2:It's interesting, it's almost like. It's almost like I failed In that time. I failed into success because I had no idea why I was doing it. I had no. I mean, I knew why I thought I was doing it, but I had no idea where I was drawing energy from. And I thought that and I know that that, because and Wendy and I have talked about this because how could you not? But we're, if we found ourselves in that situation again, I would. My relentlessness would be even more relentless, but it would be, it would be full, yeah.
Speaker 1:It would be.
Speaker 2:It would. It would be correct, it would be. I was failing into the right answer somehow, and I mean, that's just God's mercy, so oh a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:A hundred percent, so that's just one thing. But you know 100, so that's just one thing. But you know, nines are very generous, like josh is very generous and he, he encourages me to be more generous because I'm, as a four, I'm inner, I'm inner focused, like I can just naturally be a little bit more selfish, that way of like. Oh, I'm concerned about and the self-preservation even heightens that even more, being self-preservation dominant concerned about what I need and and what, how to be safe and comfortable.
Speaker 1:And you know what my emotional state is um, and nines are, they're not fully outer focused, they're more dyadic, meaning they go back and forth. They're not fully outer focused, they're more dyadic, meaning they go back and forth outer focused and inner focused. When they're with around people, they're outer focused and when they're by themselves, they can be inner focused. And so that's an interesting dynamic that nines have. Um, but for fours, like I'm, I'm like really solidly inner focused, I'm like really solidly inner focused and um, so just that you know that generosity that you have and the, the way nines have a natural ability to see multiple points of view and so if I'm upset about something or frustrated, like he helps me kind of work through different scenarios of what might possibly be going on and so that this is helpful. How would you answer that question about what you love most about being married to a type four?
Speaker 2:David Lee Roth made a whole song about it in the eighties California Girls. I said, yes, david, I'll do it. And anyway, no, I well, I say she's hot. The fact of the matter is, everything about you is that's a term I like to use but I recognize the beauty on the outside, but the beauty on the inside is just overwhelming. I see her clearly is the way I see the potential and I see who she really is. The thing that I don't believe that who she, who she really is, and I don't, the thing that I don't believe that she sees, is who she really is. And I, that's what I.
Speaker 2:It's hard for me to express, and that's okay, because, as a nine, I'm a body type and my gut, just everything, everything about me, all my emotions, all my thoughts, they're heavily influenced by my gut and I just know, I know that you, I know who you are and I know how beautiful you are and I know how successful you can be. I know how competent you are, I know how thoughtful you are. I know all these things about you and I could just go down the spiritual gifts list and I see all of them embodied in you. You don't use them all the time, necessarily, but who does?
Speaker 2:We'd be perfect if that was the case, but I see that and I know that she's creative and we, if we choose to, we'll have a great adventure, and that's like the most exciting thing in my life is to spend our lives having a great adventure, and I don't want to be on the couch forever.
Speaker 1:So that I think maybe can bring us to our closing topic of what would we, in what areas do we hope to grow as we get older, in our personal lives? Us as a couple, how do you want to grow in the next, this next stage of life?
Speaker 2:um, well, I, I want to. Everything is in relationship to everything that I I think about measures, or is measured by the relationships that I should have. I, I want to grow in relationship with God and with you and with our kids, and I want to, I just want to have that, that an intimacy that I only, as a kid, could have dreamed about. I want to, I want to know and I want to be as excited about the things that you're doing as I'm excited about the things that I want to be as excited about the things that you're doing as I'm excited about the things that I want. I want us to be that close. I want us to share that. I've often said.
Speaker 1:I don't want to have a good relationship. Do you mean by that that you want to be as excited about the things you're doing as you get excited about the things I'm doing?
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, that's probably a better way to say it for the nine, but I recognize how excited I'm getting about the things that I.
Speaker 2:That would have been the right answer 10 years ago, but I recognize how excited I'm getting about the things that I'm doing and I want to be that excited about the things that you're doing and I want you to be excited about the things that I'm doing, if it seems stupid and resource consuming and all that stuff, but I want I want us to shit, to genuinely share life, even if we're not doing a specific thing together, but to genuinely share life about it.
Speaker 2:And I and I think that I think it starts with little things. I mean, I don't know if you've even noticed that, but this, but I've been coming home and we turn everything off and start talking for about 10 to 20 minutes and I think that's really important. We weren't always doing that, yeah, so as we learn this, this new way to look at life, because the kids are all gone, I want to be able to, to travel and have adventures and, um, I think too many people waste their lives looking at screens. So these are the things that I don't want to do, that I want to do in our life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, I agree with everything that you said and one of the things that I tell um the people that I'm working with and I'm coaching, and as I'm, as I'm now coaching couples, like I tell them, like the best gift you can give your relationship is curiosity, like to stay continuously curious about your partner and about who they are and who they're becoming, because we we don't stay stagnant, or at least I hope we don't stay stagnant, or at least I hope that we don't stay stagnant in our lives and that you aren't staying stagnant in your life.
Speaker 1:Thank you the listeners.
Speaker 1:Like if we only see the person that we're in intimate relationship with through how we saw them when we first met them, or even like five, 10 years into the relationship, like we're doing a disservice to them and we're doing a disservice to ourselves and our relationship, because we change, life changes us, and so, um, I hope that we just continue to stay really curious about one another, curious about what life is bringing us.
Speaker 1:Um to second what you said about having great relationships with our kids. Like that's something so important to me and, I believe, to us. Like to have a very connected relationship and um to really invest in spending time in relationship with them, not just like what's happening in their life, but like who are they becoming, stay curious about them as they grow and they change in their life. And then you know doing that with our grandkids too, you know of just continual curiosity is one of the biggest gifts that you can give to any relationship that you have in your life. So that's what I hope for, I mean, but also travel like you know, get out and do and stay active.
Speaker 1:Like you know, I want to be able to go to Sedona, you know, in 10 years from now, when we're in our sixties, and so I, like I wanted that you know, and so eating healthy and being active and staying connected, like that's what I want for us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I think that, um, I've heard people say before that you are not who you were when you got married. You know, and, and it really. Yeah, thank goodness that's true and it makes sense. But if you really think about it, in five years I want to be the person that you deserve you know that's.
Speaker 2:That's what I you already are, I know but that, just you know, as we, as we grow in years and and intimacy, I want to. I want to set myself up to be the person, every day, that you deserve and that's going to be a different person in five years, it's going to be a different person in 10 years and I hope that.
Speaker 2:I hope that everybody understands that and it's not your responsibility to make your partner be the person you deserve. It's their responsibility to take that on themselves. Because I think you cannot change someone else.
Speaker 1:You can only change yourself. You can only work on you. But working on you has it has a ripple effect, like if, if you want to start working on you, it will affect the people around you.
Speaker 2:And that's the practice of I and that's the practice of I think that's the practice of love. Yeah, I'd say that love is a. Love starts out as a feeling. That makes perfect sense, but Shakespeare forgot to remind us that it moves on past that and it becomes a choice.
Speaker 1:and it better become a choice, because if it doesn't become a choice, it will end, and that's something that we've said throughout almost the entirety of our it becomes a choice and it better become a choice, because if it doesn't become a choice, it will end and that's something that we've said throughout almost the entirety of our marriage of that that love is a choice and we're going to wake up every day choosing to love, even even in the seasons where we don't like each other very much because there are those seasons Like we've talked about.
Speaker 1:In the seasons when I did not like you very much, I still chose love and I chose like it's gonna be okay, like we can. We can do this, even though there was that one period of time where I was just like I'm out yeah, well, it's, it's.
Speaker 2:Uh, yeah, I don't know, you got ahead of that. Yeah, we did. No, we didn't survive. We, we made it and thrived. Yeah, um, yeah, so, but I do, I see, I see you clearly. I see you more clearly than you see yourself. I see your potential and I I know that there's great things ahead.
Speaker 1:So, Well, everyone, thank you for listening to the Josh and Wendy show today. We hope that you enjoyed it. If you and if you have any questions like, reach out to me. My email is we hope that you enjoyed it, if you, and if you have any questions like, um, reach out to me. Um, my email is Wendy Busby coaching at gmailcom. You can check out my website, wendy Busby coachingcom and, uh, connect with me and let me know if you have any questions. But we hope that you enjoyed a little look into our life.
Speaker 2:I just want to say before, before we go, I am extremely proud of you and I get to say this publicly. I've told you this over and over and over, but this has been quite a journey. You've met some great people and you've learned so much and taught me and help so many other people already and I'm super excited for you and I will say publicly how proud I am for you and I want to say publicly how proud I am of you and how much I love you thank you very much.
Speaker 1:I love you too. All right, bye everyone.