Your Enneagram Friend
Your Enneagram Friend podcast is where engaging, casual, and irresistibly fun conversations meet deep, thought-provoking discussions about the Enneagram.
In each episode, I invite my "friends" to dive into the fascinating world of the Enneagram with me, exploring how this ancient tool illuminates our personalities, strengthens our relationships, and guides us on the path to personal growth. Whether you're an Enneagram expert or just curious about what your type might mean for you, there's a place for you here.
So, grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's start the journey of discovery together. Welcome, friends, to a space where the Enneagram doesn't just inspire us—it connects us.
Hosted by Wendy Busby, Enneagram Life + Relationship Coach
Your Enneagram Friend
Unpacking Subtypes: Insights into Type Eight, Nine, and One with Wendy & Molly
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Ever wondered how the Enneagram can offer even more nuanced insights into your personality? Join us on Your Enneagram Friend podcast as we delve into the fascinating world of Enneagram subtypes with Wendy Busby and Molly Knutson-Keller. You'll learn why the Enneagram's 27 subtypes provide a richer understanding of human behavior.
This episode is part 1 of our 3-part series on Subtypes. In it we walk you through the intricacies of the Self-Preservation, Social, and Sexual expressions of Types 8, 9, 1.
We also offer a brief overview of the Enneagram's energy centers and encourage you to revisit previous episodes for a deeper understanding. We express our heartfelt gratitude for your support and invite your feedback as we continue this enlightening journey together.
Connect with Molly at https://www.mollykkcoaching.com/ and on Instagram @mollykkcoaching
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Hello and welcome to the your Enneagram Friend podcast, where you are invited to an engaging and thought-provoking conversation about the Enneagram. I'm Wendy Busby, your very own life and relationship coach, here to inspire you to have a more fulfilling relationship with yourself and with the important people in your life. Today, I am joined again by my friend and teaching partner, molly Knutson Keller. Molly and I are passionate about bringing you topics that will help you on your Enneagram journey. Our mission at Enneagram Action is to inspire you to get curious about yourself and the people around you so that you can thrive in every area of your life. We're all about making personal growth, using the wisdom of the Enneagram, simple and accessible to you.
Speaker 1:Now this is the first in a three-part series that Molly and I are doing on subtypes, and today we're going to begin with the questions what is a subtype and why are there 27 subtypes? But the bulk of this episode is about the subtypes of types eight, nine and one. So, molly, first, hello, hello, great to be here. So fun to be here with you. I love it every time. And do you have anything to add before we get started on this cool topic?
Speaker 2:Yes, and I love this topic. I'm really excited to start the first of the three-part series. But one thing I wanted to say before we dive into our content about subtypes is about you, wendy. I wanted to take a moment on your show to tell you, and your listeners especially, how impressed I am with this podcast. You have created a show with real depth, intention and purpose and I just want to compliment you because I know all the hard work that you've put into this and you also have some serious, mad natural host skills some natural skills as a host. So I just wanted to name that and say thank you for having me here on your podcast and yay for the subtypes conversation.
Speaker 1:Yay, well, molly, thank you so much. That's really really sweet of you to say and I love that we're doing this work together and we just, I think, a really natural balance to one another and I just love you.
Speaker 2:I love you too, and I love doing this together with you. Yeah, me too.
Speaker 1:Alrighty, Well, let's get started. Molly walk us through two questions what is a subtype and why are there 27 subtypes?
Speaker 2:Okay, what is a subtype and why are there 27 subtypes? We're going to do this as a reminder. All of you listening, really, as you get curious and you're listening, remember to channel compassion and put that inner critic aside as best as possible. Curiosity with compassion. So the Enneagram it is all about breaking down our personality into three main energy centers the head, the heart and the body. In the Enneagram world, these are often referred to as the centers of intelligence or the triads. But just so you all know, wendy and I will be using the term energy centers to refer to the head, heart and body centers in our teaching. So the energy centers each of these centers the head, heart and body has three unique personality patterns which give us the nine Enneagram types. But it doesn't stop there. It gets even more interesting when we introduce these 27 subtypes.
Speaker 2:These subtypes come from our strongest instinctual drives and they're all about how we handle things like taking care of ourselves that would be self-preservation. How we engage with the group that would be social and how we connect and bond with others. That's the one-to-one, also known as the sexual. So those are the instincts of social, self-preservation and sexual. And what's really cool about understanding these subtypes is that it gives us, as such, a much deeper and more nuanced view of each personality type.
Speaker 2:It helps explain why two people with the same Enneagram, type or number might behave pretty differently. When you combine that type or number or pattern with the dominant instinct, it has a completely different expression. Sometimes those instinctual drives just pull them in different expressions and directions. So learning about the subtypes, it isn't just academic, it is truly practical. It helps us see the unique shades within each type, boosting our self-awareness and giving us clearer insights into some of our most automatic behaviors and those underlying deeper motivations. It's like looking at a high resolution version of ourself, revealing how these core biological drives really shape what we do and why we do what we do. It is pretty cool, am I right?
Speaker 1:Yes, wow, molly, I really love how you just laid all that out and set the stage for the conversation that we're going to be having today. But for you listeners, if you haven't already listened to the podcast that Molly and I did, which I published on August 3rd, I really recommend that you do that. In that episode, you're going to get an overview of the instincts that Molly just talked about the self-preservation, social and sexual one-to-one. So please give that a lesson, a lesson, a lesson, and you might get a lesson too. There you go, that's right, so okay, so we are starting with the body energy center today, which is connected to types eight, nine and one, and we will first start with the subtypes of type eight. So let's get going.
Speaker 1:All right, the self-preservation subtype of type eight is known or named satisfaction, and these type eights are all about embodying their deep desire for self-sufficiency and they have a very non, no nonsense way of going about it. Their main game is securing what they need to survive, so you can think basic necessities, and they have a really straightforward, practical approach, like there's no beating around the bush with them. They're all about taking direct action to get what they want, and they want it now. So they're very quick to act. What's really interesting about this type is their knack for thriving under pressure. They're negotiators, they're the dealmakers, especially in tough business situations. They have a natural talent for understanding the nuts and bolts of business and using that to keep an upper hand.
Speaker 1:The self-preservation eight is known for being the most vengeful of their type. The other two eights they might hold a grudge with a clear reason in mind, but the self-preservation eight they can dismiss opposition quickly and sometimes impulsively, without much explanation and feelings. They're not so into that. So they can kind of come off a bit like a type five, seeming a little detached or dismissive when it comes to emotions and relationships. But they and they really prize their independence and they kind of armor themselves up, which makes them appear tough and sometimes a bit distant or even cold. And sometimes a bit distant or even cold, but it's all a part of how they ensure that they're never at a disadvantage. They want to present strength, protection and honesty and a bit of like I don't need anyone, I can take care of myself. So that is an overview of the self-preservation eight. Okay, one of the three, yeah, social.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's the first of the third in the subtypes flavor of type eight. Now to the social subtype of type eight, also known as solidarity. This subtype is a bit of a curveball. They're known what they're called, what is the counter type, which means that they don't always quite typically fit the stereotypical type of the eight mold. These are the eights who are more relationship focused and come off less aggressive or assertive on the surface, which sometimes leads them to be mistaken for type nines and even type twos, especially social twos and especially among women. But there's, the kicker here is, despite their soft exterior, social eights are still assertive and they have that rebellious streak that's so characteristic of type eights, that underlying directness.
Speaker 2:Imagine the social eight as a kind of paradox. They're protective and fiercely loyal, especially of the underdog or the person that may need help. They're protective and yet they can show some antisocial behaviors. So what drives them is this strong desire to stand up for others. They channel that aggression into fighting for the collective good.
Speaker 2:They are often the ones who notice when something's off in the social fabric and they're quick to step up for social justice. They definitely have a social justice core value. You can picture them as the kid who toughened up to shield a parent from harm, always ready to stand up against what they see as oppressive forces, the bigger oppressive forces that they're the strong ones who can stand up to that, and their aggression is more about solidarity than personal vendettas or vengeance. However, even with their strong protective instincts, social eights might not always tune into their own emotional needs, like the need for love. They might seek fulfillment through power and pleasure within their social groups. Instead, social eights are often seen as more approachable and composed. Compared to the other type eights, they prefer to challenge norms in more subtle ways. They are the ones you'll find in the background, quietly but very effectively making a difference, always ready to support the underdog, yes, very very well said.
Speaker 1:All right, let's keep this moving. I'm going to talk about the sexual eight, which is named possession. These are the eights that really stand out with their intense kind of almost antisocial vibe. They're the rebels of the type eights. They're emotionally charged and super intense and when it comes to expressing their inner fire they do it through rebellion. They do not shy away from challenging societal norms and values and they're they're not just talking the talk like they're actually walking the walk, acting on impulse and passion, and they really stand out in a crowd like they're the unspoken, outspoken ones in the crowd.
Speaker 1:These eights are really seen as nonconformist. They aren't too concerned about following rules and laws and instead they kind of wield their energy dominantly and grab the spotlight and use their sheer presence to exert influence and not just gain material things but really really to make a statement. But what's really captivating about these eights is their charisma and they have an intense seductiveness they bring to the table which makes them very, very magnetic. They show for the eights which are kind of not known for showing emotion. The sexual eight is quite emotional. They have a wide range of emotions and those moments of kind of unexpected vulnerability and they have kind of an intense displays that might remind you of the passionate and sometimes angry type fours, emotional depth and expressiveness that adds a vibrant, dynamic quality to their personality and this kind of sets them apart and it sometimes blurs the lines with other like intense types. Like I said with the with the four and eight can be a mistype, especially if it's the sexual dominant instinct.
Speaker 2:All right, that's really helpful. And again, I love this idea of curiosity, honesty and compassion. Love this idea of curiosity, honesty and compassion, especially if you're not sure what type you land in. Yet the nuances between the two different types, when you add in the instinct to make the subtype, is striking and it's very curious. So, as you're listening, just curiosity, honesty, compassion with yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just to reiterate, molly, what you said in the beginning is like the reason why we love the topic of subtypes so much is because on the surface, like two types or two patterns can look really similar and it can sometimes be hard to tell the difference between two types, and so we have to get to that more granular view, using the subtypes to help do that. This is a, so we hope that you're enjoying this conversation so far. So we are going to to move on to the subtypes of type nine, starting with self-preservation. Nine, molly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So nines, they're in the middle of the body energy center. And the self-preservation nine is named appetite. And no, it's not all about food. At the heart of it, appetite really speaks to a profound need for protection that comes from finding comfort in satisfying basic physical needs. This subtype of nine, the self-pres nine, finds solace in physical contentment, which for them is a way to kind of dodge a more active and engaging lifestyle. It is their unique expression of sloth, which is the passion of nines.
Speaker 2:Like all type nines, the self-preservation nine is self-forgetting. They often lose themselves in activities like eating or sleeping, reading or working anything to avoid facing their own deeper needs or the uncomfortable realization of an underlying sense of emptiness. Self-preservation nines really prefer sticking to the safety of what they know, routines that don't necessarily push towards active participation, which then in turn could stir up conflict or overstimulation. It's just easier for them to blend into the background in their comfortable routines. It's easier than to confront potential disruptions that could shake their sense of peace and their underlying desire and need for harmony. There's also this aspect where they sort of give up on the need for active love and instead seeking comfort in those pleasurable activities to fill that void.
Speaker 2:Self-preservation nines are very grounded. They're less drawn to the abstract or to the metaphysical and they lean towards the practical. They often find it harder to put their inner experiences into words and they can be a bit more stubborn, and even sometimes irritable, than the other nines, and they have a more solid, sometimes almost type 8-like presence when it comes to taking action. They love their solitude. Self-preservation nines have a self-deprecating sense of humor and they really do have a unique set of qualities that make them stand out within the Enneagram nine space. So that's a little glimpse into the self-preservation nines and we like our self-preservation.
Speaker 1:Nines, nines, and we like our self-preservation nines?
Speaker 2:Yes, both of us, our spouses, are self-pres, nines right.
Speaker 1:No, Josh is the sexual nine.
Speaker 2:He's the sexual nine. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:But we both have nine spouses. Okay, all right, we can go off on tangents all the time.
Speaker 1:For the sake of time, we're really trying to stay focused on our topic today, so I'm going to go right into the social nine, which is named participation. This social nine is the counter type of the nines, and so you may have noticed what the eight, the social eight, was the counter type of the eights and the social line happens to be the counter type among the nines, and so there's always one counter type in the three types of the energy center. So that's cool to know. But what gives them? And this counter type participation gives them kind of a type three vibe, because they can be really real workaholics. But here's the twist Like they express the core trait of sloth by merging with the group, working really tirelessly to support the group's interest and often put the group's need before their own. So that really separates them from like a type three.
Speaker 1:Social nines are really generous and they're so much about the group's wellbeing and sometimes this is to the point of sacrificing their own needs to meet the expectations of others. They're friendly, they jump into activities with gusto, but you'll notice that they don't really share much of their personal struggles or stress, and there's a there's a reason for this. Like, deep down they are driven by a fear of not fitting in. Deep down, they are driven by a fear of not fitting in, and this pushes them to go above and beyond with their generosity and dedication to the group. This social subtype of nine is incredibly diligent when it comes to securing their place within the group. They put a lot of effort without letting on how much the effort is taking out of them. Emotionally, they tend to keep it even keel, like they don't have real deep dives into sorrow, or they and they don't really skyrocket into emotional highs, like their ability to mediate and lead comes from this steady emotional baseline that allows them to stay committed to maintaining the group harmony. That's it for social nines.
Speaker 2:Wow, okay, thank you. So, and then our last of the subtypes and nines is the sexual nine, or one-to-one sexual or one-to-one nine, known as fusion. So these nines, the sexual or the one-on-one nines, have this deep need to define themselves through their close relationships. It's like they're searching for a sense of identity that they feel is missing internally within themselves. They often experience a blurring of boundaries where their own identity kind of melds with those of their significant other or significant others, those of their significant other or significant others. This can turn into, depending on these relationships, to sidestep facing their own distinct existence or individual uniqueness. The thing is, for true connection to happen, individuals need to be self-sufficient before they can genuinely unite with someone else.
Speaker 2:But sexual nines often find it tough to discover their own passions and might even look to others to fill the gap. Even often without realizing it, they kind of borrow someone else's purpose to avoid confronting their own lack of affection. This tendency to merge, as it's called, might even extend to adopting the emotions, the beliefs and the behaviors of those close to them, and this can create issues with maintaining a clear identity and a structure in their lives are naturally so kind and so gentle and affectionate. Their intense focus on the needs of others can sometimes lead them to neglect their own needs. This might even result in a passive-aggressive behavior. Despite their tender and loving nature, their affection can sometimes come off as suspicious or overly detached, making them appear as the least assertive among the nines. So that's a glimpse into this sexual nine.
Speaker 1:And it's so true. I live with one, it's so true, and I love him very much.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's move on to type one, and I'll get us started with the self-preservation one that we call worry. And this type represents like the quintessential perfectionist. For them, anger is a big no-no, and so it's deeply suppressed and their anger gets transformed into what seems like worth. This transformation of anger leads them to present themselves as like, incredibly gentle and decent and kind, as they strive to be perfect themselves. But beneath like that calm, friendly surface, like, there's a lot of controlled anger. They can be really rigid and trying to hold all that anger controlled because they want to be look friendly and kind. So they're just masters at keeping it under wraps. They often disguise what appears to be. They often it kind of looks like friendly benevolence with them, but when the pressure mounts, like their repressed anger can bubble up as irritation, resentment, frustration and even sometimes self-righteousness.
Speaker 1:So the self-preservation ones can find themselves wrestling with anxiety and worry. It's just fueled by this deep sense of responsibility For them. For the self-preservation one, it usually stems from like a chaotic family background where they felt compelled to be the stabilizing force, sometimes like even feeling more responsible than their own parents. And this background, this experience as a child, planted a seed of survival fear in them, leading them to like compulsively need to control their environment and a constant concern for what might happen next. So they don't really see themselves as perfect, but rather as works in progress. They're always aiming to improve.
Speaker 1:And their inner critic? They have a very loud inner critic and it's mainly focused on their own actions and their aspirations of being better, which is slightly different than the other two type ones. They all have an inner critic, but how that gets acted out is different. And with the self-preservation one it's more directed at themselves, at themselves, and so while they they share, um, they can look a little six six ish because of the anxiety and the fear. But, um, self-preservation ones are, like, confident in their standards of perfection, unlike the sixes, they who often doubt and second guess what, like perfection, perfection actually really means.
Speaker 2:And Wendy I want to make. I want to let all of you listening know that in earlier episodes Wendy interviews people about specific, different types, and so I believe you have one with a self-preservation one already on your podcast.
Speaker 1:Yes, with a self-preservation one already on your podcast. Yes, where, mary, I interviewed Mary Shaw, who is a self-preservation one, and she did a really good job of sharing what it's like for her. Yeah, self-preservation one. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, molly.
Speaker 2:Yeah so. So keep that in mind, check, check that if you're curious. Yeah, friends so that if you're curious, friends. So okay, now let's dive into the social one, known as rigidity.
Speaker 2:And unlike their self-preservation counterparts, who are all about embodying perfectionism, social ones focus intensely on the act of being perfect. They carry a kind of anger that's tucked away, giving them a more intellectual vibe, kind of a teaching vibe, with a strong need to control things around them. This suppressed anger tends to give them a colder demeanor and makes them seem a little bit more critical, or even severe, sometimes with a very clear idea of how things should be done. From a young age. Social ones are often the well-behaved kids who don't rock the boat. But that doesn't mean their anger is completely invisible. It comes out through their passion for being guardians of the truth and a compulsive urge to correct others, to know the right way. They have this deep-seated need to show the right way to do things, often feeling driven to model ideal behaviors and educate others by example.
Speaker 2:As I said earlier, kind of like a school teacher. They're pretty rigid in their beliefs. Social ones are insisting that their methods are the only right way and often conveying this with a sense of authority. So there's a real authority in the conveying of information or in relating. There's also an underlying desire to feel superior, which often drives them to position others as wrong, to maintain their sense of control and that sense of superiority. Social ones can seem very similar to a type five, with that appearing detached from social groups and perceiving themselves as perfect or superior, and this often leads to a sense of alienation in group settings where they don't feel completely at ease. So again, to clarify this, social survival instinct does not necessarily mean socializing or feeling like you belong or feeling comfortable in groups or feeling comfortable in groups.
Speaker 2:So just a little clarification there.
Speaker 1:It's really important to understand that, like you, might be social dominant and feel completely uncomfortable in groups, so it's under. It's important to understand some of these more nuanced things, like what we've been talking about and the reason why we're doing this podcast series.
Speaker 2:So, and and one other overarching thing about type ones whichever subtype is um this connection to criticism that type ones have the loudest inner critic. So when there's criticizing outwardly, you can be sure the voice of the inner critic is 10 times as loud. I don't know you type ones, you help me here, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's so true, molly, and like that, you know not to make this about type four, because that's not what we're here. But people will say like, oh, type fours have an inner critic as well, and that's true, but it's more an inner condemner and the type one is a more. An inner critic is criticizing yourself about everything, about how it's not good enough or this isn't right or that isn't right, whereas like the type four, it's more about condemning, like I'm not good enough, I didn't do that right. It's more that flavor. So because because ones and fours can be um, a big mistype.
Speaker 2:So I just want to clarify that for people who are listening, so, and there's a natural line between them. Natural, yeah, they have an access line between them. We'll explore that later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, dot, dot dot. Okay, I'm going to bring us home with the sexual one, which is nicknamed Zeal. They are more of a reformer than a perfectionist, and this is the counter type of type one. And what's interesting about them is their focus is more on perfecting others rather than perfecting themselves. So it is expressed differently. They show their anger more openly than the other ones and it's marked by impatience, assertiveness and a pretty strong sense of entitlement because, like, why not be angry if you're trying to get someone to do something that you want them to do? Right? So they're, they're, they're more comfortable with, with anger because, remember, they're trying to improve others and improve the world. And zeal, like, why it's called zeal, is that like, really take shape in their mindset and they can see themselves as reformers or even zealots and convinced that they have a better way of living and doing things. And this makes them feel justified in imposing their will on others.
Speaker 1:And this sense of entitlement often comes, like wrapped in a cloak of moral higher code moral, higher moral code or like a calling to make things better. And um it also, they, they're very intense. They have a lot of excitement and passion for enacting change. They're driven by a deep dedication to their ideals, and this subtypes desire is fueled by their anger, and so they're more comfortable with anger, like, like I said, and this anger propels them to try and improve others in society according to their vision, like what they think, how they have interpreted what better is. So that's an interesting point there. They have a lot of excitement about potential improvements. They have a lot of excitement about potential improvements and this really gives them an urgent, an urgency to like act and a burning need to act, and it's driven by, like, their conviction, because they feel very passionate about what they know to be true. They're proactive, they seize opportunities when directing others, and it's kind of underpinned, if you haven't picked up on already, by this belief in their own moral superiority, and so that often translates into like I take this attitude where they feel entitled to assert their desire and take action supported by their strong sense of justice and honor. So, unlike the other ones who might suppress their desires and control their anger due to their self-imposed moral judgments, sexual ones are more about embracing and expressing their impulses openly. This can make them seem similar to a type eight. However, while type eights might act with less concern for social norms, ones like they keep their focus sharply on the social and moral imperatives that they believe to be true.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I think we got through all of those types of eight, nine and one until we hope you all stayed with us in the process and you might have a lot of questions, and we invite your questions, like, please message us. Um, you can even leave a message in. You can text me from app, like if you go into Apple, like you can text directly to me and I will get your question, but it won't tell me your name or your number. So if you do that, please give me your phone number back so that I can respond to you or Molly can respond to you. You can also email either one of us or reach out to us on social media, and all of those links will be in the show notes. So, yeah, and we are here too, because we want you to feel like you have as much information as you feel like you need. So we are here for you?
Speaker 2:Yes, definitely, and we want to encourage you to be patient. Be patient with yourself as you're hearing this, and with, actually, the symbol of the Enneagram. I know for a long time for myself the Enneagram. I know for a long time for myself. I was like, and if you're feeling that way, know that that's totally natural and go slow, listen to our podcast on the nine types for a little refresher and for the instincts one, if that helps you go a little slower or get a little. You know it helps to listen. I can't hear it enough. Um the information about this. So so just know you're in good company and we're with you in this.
Speaker 1:And uh, that was one of the three parts of our three energy centers we're talking about centers we're talking about, yes, energy center, yes, so so next time we will be doing the heart energy center of types two, three and four, so you can look for that and probably about a month from now, like this one, um, I'll be publishing here shortly and then in about a month after that is when we will do the second in this series. So we just want to again say thank you. We're happy that you're here and we want to hear from you.
Speaker 2:Yay, thank you, we love you.
Speaker 1:Take care yeah, peace Bye, peace out.