Your Enneagram Friend
Your Enneagram Friend podcast is where engaging, casual, and irresistibly fun conversations meet deep, thought-provoking discussions about the Enneagram.
In each episode, I invite my "friends" to dive into the fascinating world of the Enneagram with me, exploring how this ancient tool illuminates our personalities, strengthens our relationships, and guides us on the path to personal growth. Whether you're an Enneagram expert or just curious about what your type might mean for you, there's a place for you here.
So, grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's start the journey of discovery together. Welcome, friends, to a space where the Enneagram doesn't just inspire us—it connects us.
Hosted by Wendy Busby, Enneagram Life + Relationship Coach
Your Enneagram Friend
Eric's Journey: Balancing Success and Authenticity (Type SP 3)
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Ever wondered how the Enneagram can transform your understanding of yourself and your relationships? Join me as I sit down with Eric Scherrer, who shares his enlightening journey as a Self-Preservation Type Three!
Eric offers a candid look at the pressures and anxieties faced by a self-preservation Type 3, including the constant balancing act of striving for success and maintaining financial security. Counseling and coaching play pivotal roles in his coping strategies, and we discuss the critical, yet often challenging, task of expanding emotional language for Type 3s. The conversation sheds light on the devastating impact of failure on Type Threes and how they often reframe situations to avoid the harsh reality of not meeting their goals.
In the final segments, we dive into the strategies that help Type Threes like Eric maintain authenticity and uphold their values, especially in demanding environments. Eric shares practical tips on aligning personal missions with daily decisions and highlights the significance of building trust and intimacy in relationships. This episode promises rich insights into the Type 3 personality and offers valuable advice for anyone looking to enhance their understanding and connections with the Threes in their lives.
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Hey everyone, welcome to the your Enneagram Friend podcast, where I have engaging and thought-provoking conversations with my friends about the Enneagram. I'm Wendy Busby, your very own life and relationship coach here to inspire you to know yourself better. Thank you for listening. Coach here to inspire you to know yourself better. Thank you for listening. Today on the show, I have my good friend Eric Scheer to talk with us about what it's like being an Enneagram Type 3. Hey Eric, hey Wendy, good to see you. It's so good to see you too. I really appreciate you being here and being willing to share with us about all things type three.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely. Any conversation with you, Wendy, is great. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1:Thanks, Eric. So I like to start by asking my guests to share a little bit about their background, maybe where you're from, a little about your family, what you do, really anything that you feel comfortable sharing that gives people an insight into who is Eric?
Speaker 2:All right, Well, let's see. I am married, been married, for it'll be 20 years here in December to my wife Kelly. We have two boys. We have a 14 year old and a three year old.
Speaker 2:So we're on both ends of the spectrum, so working on the teen side of the house, then working on potty training on the other side of the house, so it's it's kind of fun, it keeps us young, and we've been a military family. We've we've been in the Marine Corps for it's been over 20 years now, and so we've moved all over the place. There's really not a spot here in the US that doesn't have a Marine Corps base that we haven't lived at. So we've been all over the place.
Speaker 1:Do you have a favorite place that you have lived?
Speaker 2:Ironically, our favorite place is Yuma, arizona. We love Yuma, we love Yuma. That was just really where our best community was and I think, as far as just outdoor adventures, which our family loves to do, yuma had that in abundance. So we just we loved it. We loved it there.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, thanks for giving us a little insight into who you are, and so let's jump into the Enneagram. When did you first learn about the Enneagram?
Speaker 2:You know, it was uh I first learned about it probably around the 2013, 2014 timeframe Um, Ian Crone, his book, his first book that he released. I remember reading that and that was I think that was a 2013 timeframe, maybe 2014. We were on a vacation to the beach and was sitting there reading it and I thought, wow, this is so informative and so fascinating. So that's when I first heard about the Enneagram and learned about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's similar to me. I first learned about it through Ian Cron as well, reading the Road Back to you. Yep, the Road Back to you, which is an excellent book for people to read if they're interested in the subject. It's a great primer book. It's an easy read. He's quite entertaining in the way he writes and I like introducing people to that book. So I did mention that you're a type three. How did you come to know that you're a type three?
Speaker 2:Well, it's a great question and it's a funny story. When I first read Ian's book the Road Back to you, I thought you know this really makes a lot of sense. I think that that chapter on the three that really makes sense. I think that's who I am and I'll never forget driving to work we were in Quantico, virginia, at the time and I'm driving to work and I'm listening to Ian's podcast and he's interviewing a lady as a type one.
Speaker 2:So she's doing the same kind of podcast that you and I are doing, and she was on as a type one and Ian's just asking her to describe how she would see how she views the world and how she would handle different situations. And, as she was, as she's saying this, I uh she's going through her, her interview. I was thinking to myself well, maybe I really mistyped myself, maybe I'm, because I'm resonating with everything that she's saying. I mean she could be talking about me, and so I was really beginning to wonder maybe I'm a one, I must be a one. And then, about halfway through the podcast, Ian just stops and he said I've never done this on a podcast before and I'm just going to do it. I'm not sure how to say this, but you're not a one to that episode.
Speaker 2:actually You're three, and that's I just. I just died laughing in the car. I was like, well, okay, there we go. I guess that solidifies it. So for me, that's really what. What solidified my type was Okay, there we go, that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and can you share with us what your subtype is?
Speaker 2:Oh, so I am a sexual subtype for three.
Speaker 1:You are.
Speaker 2:Yes, wait a minute. Self-preservation, self-preservation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks yeah. No, that's okay, that's okay. I was like wow, something happened, we talked Okay.
Speaker 2:No, and I, I'm sorry, wendy, yeah.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:Self-pres. That's what it is.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what it is. Yes, which there's a lot of commonalities between self-preservation, threes and and self-preservation ones. So it makes a lot of sense that she thought that she was a one and that you were. As you were listening to that, you're like, oh, maybe I'm a type one yeah and for you, just because I know you um the. The repressed instinct for you is the sexual instinct.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:I think that's what because I know you've been working on that, like that's something that has been part of your own inner work. And so I could see where that would be the first thing that came to your mind that's right, that's right. Yeah, you're right, all right, that's right, yeah, you're right, all right. So when, um, when you've started incorporating everything that you were learning about the Enneagram into your personal growth work, where did you start, like what worked and what didn't work initially?
Speaker 2:Well, I'd say, the biggest area for me, where the Enneagram has made the most I think it's where it's been most revealing to me, especially as a three is my tendency to. Well, there's a couple of things. One would be my tendency to perform, and in that tendency to perform, to shapeshift, to not really be true to who I am, to not really know who I am. And because of that tendency and that desire to perform, to look good, to shape shift, I would put relationships on the back burner in order to accomplish tasks or in order to achieve and that includes my own family to where it is hard for me to really focus on relationships. Because if you give Eric a choice, is Eric going to work on something and that is for outward accomplishment, or is Eric going to work on something that being a relationship with my sons or my wife?
Speaker 2:The easy box is for me to work on that outward achievement and what the work that I have been doing, particularly with with you, wendy, and then taking this on my own is focusing on? They're both work, but answering the question in my mind what do I really want to achieve? And I value relationships, I value intentionality in my relationships, and so I recognize that that is also work, and so I am putting the effort into being available, being present in those very intimate close relationships that I want to have intimacy in, because it takes work. It takes work.
Speaker 1:It does, and that was really beautifully said. I think it's important for people to understand especially if they're newly identified as a type three or discovered that they are a type three that you make such a good point of work because there's all this external praise that comes right. You have a goal before you. You reach the goal, you get praised for that, or you win an award, or you get a promotion before you. You've reached the goal, you get praised for that, or you win an award, or you get a promotion, or you get a bonus. There's some sort of immediacy to the reward and that feels really good. It feels really good to the type three. And when you're looking at working on relationships, those rewards, they're not quite so immediate, they're not quite so tangible, they take much longer to see.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right. And I think that a three and maybe a two can begin to fit this mold a little bit as well, especially if they have a, if they're a two wing three. But the idea, the picture I have in my mind is that this golden retriever, you know, or a lab where I'm just wagging my tail and I'm doing anything for a pat on the head, you know, and a good boy, a good boy because that means so much to me, and I don't always get that from my three-year-old, I don't, I definitely don't get that from my 14-year-old. And so I get appreciation and I get return of my affection, obviously with my wife, with Kelly, but it's not on a public stage, that's just between she and I.
Speaker 2:And so it is, it's harder, it's very hard.
Speaker 1:Yes, because there is a desire for recognition there is, but you, being a self-preservation three, it's, it looks. A desire for recognition there is, but you, being a self-preservation three, it looks a little bit different. So, just for the sake of the people who are listening, I want to give a little explanation about what a self-preservation three looks like. Is that they want to be good, not just look good, and that's what I hear you describing there. It's like I want to be good, yeah, and I want to look good, not just look good, and that's what I hear you describing there. It's like I want to be good, yeah, and I want to look good, yeah, and yeah, self-preservation threes are some of the most extreme workaholics.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the self-preservation survival strategy. It fuels anxiety about material security. Yeah, that pushes you to work even harder. That's right. There's this like I want to look good, I want to present a good image, but I want to be good, like I think that that's so important for people to understand. And so there's this idea inside of that. Promoting myself, promoting self-promotion, is bad. So a self-preservation three won't overly self-promote. They might even not drive a very nice car or look very good on the outside, because they're trying to minimize their desire to look good, and so they're a little bit more modest, not as competitive as the other threes. Does that resonate with you?
Speaker 2:That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I think sometimes it's easier for that self-preservation three to take a little bit of pride in their modesty, which is which is funny to say. But what's more important to me is a self-pres is. Self-pres three is I want to drive nice vehicles, but I don't need to drive the BMW, I want to drive. When I say a nice vehicle, I mean something that has great gas mileage, that's comfortable, that is safe, practical, practical. That's comfortable, that is safe, practical, practical that's very important to me. It's not the flash, it's the practicality that's very important to me.
Speaker 2:And I think that one of the greatest struggles that comes with self-pres. Three is anxiety is one of the big side effects, because you want not only do you want to be good and you want to be perceived as good and doing everything right and doing it well, but you also want to be successful on top of that. So you've got to be perceived as doing everything right and being successful. And so you're craving that outside attaboy, that outside pat on the head, the acknowledgement that you are good and that you're doing good work, and you crave it on a daily and almost hourly basis. It's always there. And then when you add the self-prez on top of that. If you've got to write a big check for something you may have, you probably have your as a self-prez.
Speaker 2:Three you're probably doing pretty well with savings. You're probably taking care of yourself. You probably have. You know you might be, you know you might be a little bit on the prepper side occasionally who knows but you've got the things. You're ready to go. But to take something out of that, you're always doing calculations in your head. Okay, if I take this, then I've got to fill in here, or how am I going to make this up? How do I get back to that point? And you have this point in your mind of what safety might look like or what assuredness looks like. But then when you get there, it's never quite good enough and you're always having to strive for something else. And that's where the anxiety comes in, because you're never good enough, you never do something well enough, you never have enough and you're never getting the amount of praise. The amount of praise that you're craving is never enough.
Speaker 1:So what I hear you saying is that anxiety permeates, like every area of your life. Yeah, your work life, your home life, your financial life, all of it, yes. So what do you do with anxiety? What has helped you with that?
Speaker 2:Well, a number of things. I think that counseling has helped. Coaching has helped. So, working with an Enneagram coach and I've worked with you, wendy, you've helped me a lot with that. So I think the combination of counseling and coaching has has been a has been had a profound effect on my life. The other thing is sharing your anxiety with others and opening up Because, again, as a self-pressed three, you want to be, you want to show, you want to put off this image that you got it all together, that you got it, everything's good.
Speaker 2:But to share, especially with your spouse or with a close friend, somebody who's within your inner circle, that all is not well with the world and you're really concerned about something, the simple act of doing that is huge. And I think also for the self-preservation three movement, getting out and moving For me. I love to run, I'm a runner and so I need that daily activity in my life just to help clear my mind, clear my heart. Because the other issue you have with the three is your emotions end up getting blocked and you don't. I struggle with, I don't know how to show my emotion. I don't know. To me, being angry is a bad thing. To show anger is bad. Yeah, to show, to show an extreme in any way is bad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm glad that you brought up emotion. Um, because one of the one of the key traits of type three is to avoid emotion, right and, and so can you say a little bit about, like, what motivates you, cause I know you have done work in this area of expanding your emotional language, expanding your emotional experience. Um, what, what drives the three to avoid emotions, to push them away because they are the center of the heart right Heart triad. When we look at the symbol, there's the two, three, four. That makes it the heart center, and three sits right in the middle of it, and there they have capacity for the most emotions, even more than a four, which is usually surprising.
Speaker 2:I know, wendy, and it surprises me to hear you say that and I know you keep telling me that my emotions are my superpower. I believe you, but I'm taking that on faith because I mean, I still haven't seen that and that you're good to show anger or to let yourself become angry at something, or to show fear or to show sadness. It becomes very scary, because what if people see you angry? What if people see you sad and fearful?
Speaker 1:And that doesn't fit the image of being good.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's right. So what have I? How have I dealt with that it's? I'm not yet at the point where I can let people see that I'm mad, but what I'm working on is I can tell. For example, I was very concerned about something yesterday and there was actually. It kicked up some anxiety for me, and so I was able to tell my wife, I was able to tell Kelly. I said hey, I am really feeling anxious this evening, and the cool thing is that she knows even enough to say what are you anxious about? And I could just, I'd tell her well, I'm anxious about this and this and this and this, and then we're able to discuss it. And I was so much, I felt so much better after telling her that. And so what I've learned is that if I would just tell my son, I am really angry, right now about what you did.
Speaker 2:I may not show it, but I'm going to tell him. I'm telling Kelly. I am really anxious about this right now. I don't know how to feel this out. I don't know why. I just am.
Speaker 1:I don't know how to express it. Naming it seems to be maybe the first step of simply naming the emotion that is coming to the surface.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1:Instead of numbing it out and pushing it down. That's right.
Speaker 2:And Wendy, you gave me a great tool early on in our coaching relationship where you gave me a wheel and it was an emotion wheel and it started with some of the big ones okay, anxiety, for example, or maybe it was fear or whatever happened to be and it drives down to the core of yeah, that's what I feel yeah, that's helped me a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the feeling wheel is an excellent tool. I mean, I think it's an excellent tool for everyone, but especially for the types that have a little bit harder time identifying emotion. Because emotion is, they're there for a reason, right, we have. We have emotions as human beings for a reason. They're there to inform us of something, and so let's use all the resources that we have in us, right? And what I wanted to ask you about this, to stay on the subject for a minute, because I have heard it described by other threes as pushing emotions down because it gets in the way of reaching the goal. Reaching the goal, it gets in the way of like, if I let emotions come up, I might simply collapse and I won't be able to work anymore, because working feeds personality, it feeds ego, it feeds the attaboys, the attagirls that are needed to keep pushing forward, and if I feel something about that, then I might utterly collapse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's interesting. I don't experience that so much. For me, perhaps the best way to probably describe that in my life would just be you end up taking on somewhat of a stoic view, and that's how people would describe you. They would describe you as you are very stoic, and one of the things I've had more and more people say to me is I appreciate your calmness.
Speaker 2:And all they're seeing is my lack of emotion. That's all they're saying, and maybe they appreciate that. Maybe that is a little bit of a gift in that regard, but it's not necessarily done consciously on my part. Now here's what I will say, though. Those emotions for me, because they can become so powerful, whether it's anger, I've noticed in two areas anger and anxiety. Two areas anger and anxiety. Those can be. I am unable to work when I either get very angry or get very anxious. I have to do something physically with my body or talk it out with somebody, because that is a huge block. They are so powerful, Interesting, but I can't work through it.
Speaker 1:That's really interesting. So how are you when other people are very emotional?
Speaker 2:I'm very calm, Okay, Very calm. I tend to not pick up on their emotions and shapeshift into that emotion. I remain fairly detached from them and I will. I just kind of maintain this sort of neutral space, if you will.
Speaker 1:And what if it goes on too long?
Speaker 2:Then I will tell them it's probably time to move on. Okay, I start to problem solve for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like okay, let's get back to doing something right.
Speaker 2:Let's do something about it. Let's do something about it. Yeah, You're you're.
Speaker 1:I've given you some time to express what you need to express.
Speaker 2:Yes, thank you for your expressions. I forget your feelings. Now it's going to move on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay. So another key trait that's big for type three is setting goals and doing whatever it takes to accomplish goals, and this is one of the things that, when people recognize that they're type three is, one of the first things that they identify with is the fact that they're very goal oriented and they're very driven to accomplish their goals and often will do whatever it takes to get to the thing that they've set out for them to do. So what, what is that like for you? Or what has that been like for you in the past, maybe even before you, um, had done some of this Enneagram work?
Speaker 2:Well, I can remember very clearly as early as high school. I always had I had a list of things to do. I've been a box checker since I was a teenager and I have always had goals or something that I am working towards. So that's been a very big part of my life and it does drive what I do, especially as I've gotten older and I begin working towards OK, I've got a goal of this, or I want to accomplish this, or I want to achieve this. Getting to attaining that goal has become an art to where I mean I will break it down into what am I going to do today, what are the steps it's going to take to get to that goal? And I will literally have daily I call it the big three that I stole from Full Focus, and Michael Hyatt teaches that concept of what are your big three in order to hit your quarterly and your annual goals, and I pursue that wholeheartedly.
Speaker 2:It's a system that I love. That works very well for me and is a big part of my life. The challenge is for me is making goals that align with my values, because I will make a goal out of a project. I can get those two things confused and I think we need to be careful. There's a difference between projects and there's a difference between goals, and what I've learned as I've gotten older and perhaps a little bit healthier here is that I need to first determine what are my values, what do I value, what's my purpose and what's my mission, and then set goals that align with those three things. Once I do that, then I'm on the right vector.
Speaker 1:Ah, okay, I'm glad that you said that. That's an interesting distinction between the two that maybe a lot of people don't even really recognize, even if they're not a type three right, but maybe there are other types that are more proactive with their goals.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it can. What I hear you saying is that it's a little bit like if you're just setting goals and reaching goals for the sake of reach, of doing that like it's a little bit like a spinning wheel.
Speaker 2:Like what are you actually?
Speaker 1:really accomplishing. You might be making all accomplishments, but in the bigger picture that's right. What is it that you actually really want?
Speaker 2:That's right. Michael Hyatt says that every goal is a project, but not every project is a goal, and that's been very powerful. That's been very helpful for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what is failure like for you? What happens when failure comes into the picture?
Speaker 2:Well, devastation. I think that a number of different things. So, first off, if you failed, was it really your fault? Why did you fail? I mean, maybe the did the rules change. I wasn't supposed to fail at this. You begin to question, and maybe you'll tweak things just enough that it makes you look a little bit like a victim. Or I could have the odds were stacked against me. I was the underdog in this. I probably couldn't achieve it anyway, or something some outside entity or power was working against you. Failure is a big thing for a three and you'll begin to make excuses in your mind of why you failed. You have a hard time accepting the fact that you actually failed at something and as a three, there's probably very few things you have failed at.
Speaker 1:Okay, tell me more about that at.
Speaker 2:Okay, tell me more about that, because failure is such a big deal. You equate failure with well, I'm not good, or I'm not good enough, and obviously somebody else didn't see my value.
Speaker 1:You'll do anything to avoid that. You'll do anything to avoid that. Okay, do you change the goal? Like if you have set a goal and you're on the path to reach that goal but you're sensing failure, will you change the goal? So, that you can actually accomplish it, to put it in there Like oh, I accomplished that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you might very well do that, and it's not sometimes it has to do with goals. Where it works more for me, I can. If I don't hit a goal, I'm okay with that. When I say failure, I'm talking like you really blew something or you failed at a attaining attaining, whether it's status attaining whether it's status, whether it's a position. You failed reaching that point. That's what's much more critical, because I think for a three when it comes to goal setting, if we recognize we're not going to hit that goal you're right, wendy we just change the goal, we just change the bar, we change how we measure it, or maybe we give it more time to get there.
Speaker 1:Okay, so with failure there's more reframing. It's more reframing so that you can turn what might be perceived as a failure into a success, like the failure is a success, like there's some contributing factor that was not aligned and therefore.
Speaker 2:It could be all over the place. It could be on one hand where it's like oh, that just wasn't God's will, he's protecting me from doing that. Okay, to the other end of the spectrum of boy they just boy, they blew it. I can't believe they. They would do what they did and not pick me, or you know something along those lines, or didn't see the value, would put you more of the underdog, or you really didn't have much to do with it. It's an odd place to be.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's quite interesting the way describe that I've learned something new today about type 3s, thank you. And so kind of on this same theme that we're on about appearing successful, right, this drive to appear successful, and you did allude to shape-shifting. You did allude to shape-shifting, so can you tell us a little bit more about what is shape-shifting? How does that happen? I've heard from other threes that it just sort of happens automatically. It's not really even something you think about, it just happens. But what so if you can articulate what is the driving force behind shape-shifting for type three?
Speaker 2:Well, I would say for type three, it's very much unconscious. The first thing you're going to notice when you walk into a room is what's acceptable. You immediately pick up on what are the norms and what's acceptable, what's not acceptable and who are the power figures in that room. And then once you figure that out and you do it almost instantaneously, I would say it's less than two to three minutes. You've got that wired. It's probably more like one minute. You know who those individuals are, you understand the culture, you got it. And then what you're going to do is you're going to mirror them. You are going to sit, you're going to talk like they talk, you're going to look like they look, you're going to say the things you know that they're going to want to hear.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so what's dangerous about that is you are not being true to who you are, you lose sense of who you are, you lose sense of what your values are in that organization and in that situation, and so it can be a very dangerous place to be.
Speaker 1:So how does a three get to the place that they know more who they authentically are?
Speaker 2:I think threes have to do a lot of work on what they value, and the way that I personally have done that is I do that with okay, what does God, who does God say that I am?
Speaker 2:I start there and then I think about all the people in my life that I respect or I look up to, and I distill that down into values and I say, okay, there are these traits that I really admire about these other people, and the reason I admire them in other people is because that's what I value, it's something that I want as part of my life. And then I write those values out and I make them action statements. So these are my values, they are actual thing, they're actionable steps that I can take that I value and I read it every single day and so that it becomes ingrained into my mind and into my heart, and so that helps me when I'm in a situation in a room, in a conversation, in a meeting and maybe I'm being asked to do something. What are your thoughts on this? It just helps take a little bit of the edge off to remember this is what I value, because this is what I value, this is what I'm going to say. So it's taken a lot of very deliberate work on my part.
Speaker 1:And the tendency before you had that tool would have been what?
Speaker 2:Whatever it took to make myself look good be acceptable in the eyes of whoever the powerful person in the room was.
Speaker 1:So you being in the military, I can imagine that has been really a challenge for you. It has, because not only are they being in the military. I can imagine that has been really a challenge for you.
Speaker 2:It has, because not only are they, they're the powerful person, but they're also there's rank, there's positional authority, there's all the above.
Speaker 1:Yeah, as you are in the later stages of your career, whatever might be next for you, how are you using this values tool that has worked so well for you to help you get in into more touch with who you are and what you want in life and what is next for you life and what is next for you in terms of, like, what you're going to do with your life, whether that's that you continue with where you're at right now or you go a different direction, like, how are you using that to help you in this kind of later stage in your career?
Speaker 2:Well, what it's allowing me to do, wendy, this understanding what my values are. What it's allowing me to do, wendy, is understanding what my values are, what my purpose is as a husband, a father and a friend, as a Marine, and then what my mission is, and my mission is very simple emotionally present with my wife and children, a guide to those that are within my circle and the creator of effective and efficient work.
Speaker 1:That's my mission. That's really beautiful. That's different from the last one.
Speaker 2:You shared with me. It is, and I think that mission I love that so much. Thanks, wendy. Thank you. Our missions change when we're in different stages of our life. Our missions change and that's what that mission is for me right now. And so what I do is I simply that's, and that comes straight from my values, that come straight from my purpose, and what I do is, when it comes to making decisions whether it's career decisions or workday decisions I simply filter it through. Is this part of my mission or not?
Speaker 2:If it's not, we're done. I'm not doing it. If it is part of my mission, if it falls in that mission statement, then yeah, I'll do it. So, in short, what it's helped me do, Wendy, it's allowed me to allow, it's allowed me to make my. Let my yes be yes and my no be no.
Speaker 1:Without being so concerned with what others will think of your yes and your no yeah, and can I?
Speaker 2:can I? I mean, has all that gone away, do I not? No?
Speaker 1:Like there's still some struggle there.
Speaker 2:It's like oh, it's hard to say no to this, but what are they going to think of me? But at the same time, it's I've done all this hard work, and that's what I lean back on is I've done a lot of, I put a lot of thought into this and it wasn't just I didn't just come out, come with it, come up with it out of the blue. And so this is. This has taken years of growth, work, coaching and counseling. I have to. That has to count for something, and so I can stand on it.
Speaker 1:It does. I promise you that it does. So what is the concept of slowing down like for you? Because work, you know, working really hard, being very active, and and and and all that is is really typical for threes, and, and one of the pieces of work for threes is to slow down, is to kind of get in touch with themselves, like you're describing. So how do you slow down? What is it like for you to slow down?
Speaker 2:Slowing down is very hard for me, just like you said, and I'm reading a beautiful book right now. I'm blanking on the name of the author, but it's called Sacred Rest and it is a great book. I'd recommend any three out there to read it, or really anybody Okay.
Speaker 2:It's a great, great book, and it's helped me reframe what rest is. And so a daily practice, wendy, and something I have to put on my list of things to do is hey, once an hour, I'm going to walk out of my office and I'm going to do some breath work, I'm going to practice, I'm going to relax my shoulders, I'm just going to just do a body sensory check when am I holding stress in my body? Where am I tense? And I'm going to release that tension. That's a. That is a. That's a piece of rest for me.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And I allow myself to to just lean into that, to rest. I've changed my habits in the morning, you know, or the evening before I go to bed. The morning's probably my best example. It's a three. I want to get up and I used to think, hey, I got to do all these things, got to have my quiet time, my prayer time, my reading time, do all these things. Now, as a practice, I just get up, I put a morning meditation on and I spend five minutes doing that. Nothing else, just quiet.
Speaker 1:That's a lot, that's a long time it is For for you, like, because there's this. I think I've even told you this before Another self-preservation friend of mine. She described it as like when she wakes up, her eyes pop open in the morning. It's like there's an energy pushing on her back, like get up, get up, get up, get up, get up. Like impossible to like just stay in bed and consider what the day might bring. It's an immediate get up out of bed and start working. That's right.
Speaker 1:So for you to like take five minutes, like I don't want to pass over how incredible that is and it might sound to other people like five minutes. What's the big deal about five?
Speaker 2:minutes.
Speaker 1:Being still for five minutes is incredibly hard.
Speaker 2:It is. It is very hard and I think the last example that I can give is with my three-year-old. He'll come up to me and he'll just say want to play? And for me, playing with my three-year-old is one of the hardest things I can possibly do. And there are people who are listening who would say how could you be such a terrible father? And I'd say well, you know, try being a self-preservation.
Speaker 1:three yes, I was just going to say say more about that, because it's it's okay. People need to hear the truth, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is very hard to sit down with my three-year-old and play Legos with him or play a game with him. That is doing nothing. When do you like? I mean, I'm not accomplishing anything. I'm not. The house is a mess. I'm behind on this. I've got emails and texts that I still have to answer. All these things that just need to get done and I have to pause, I have to stop and I have to. Just okay, I need to spend time with my son and I might just give myself again that five minutes, but it's connecting with him and what's helped me is because that's something I value is daily connecting physically and emotionally with my sons. That's a great way to emotionally and physically connect with him, and I can check that box emotionally and physically connect with him, and I can check that box.
Speaker 1:Yes, I was just going to say there is even an accomplishment in that. Right, there is. It's meeting one of the needs of your values, right? It's like I want to be present emotionally and physically with my family and to do that I have to sit down on the floor with my three-year-old and play Legos and just to pay attention. And first, to acknowledge this is hard and it's okay to acknowledge it's hard for me to do this I can. Maybe I feel distracted, but I'm going to choose in this moment to stay present and be here and quiet all the chatter, all the lists, the lists I have going on in my head, and just be there. That's right.
Speaker 2:And also, you know, for the threes out there who are focused on achievement, if you, if you put that on your to-do list and you say, all right, five minutes with a three-year-old, 45 minutes with a 14-year-old, and you do it and you check that box, you've accomplished something. It's huge, it's powerful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go, right, hey, if that's what it takes, do it.
Speaker 2:Yep, yep Right.
Speaker 1:That's right. Yeah, so everyone who's judging right now can shut up Right.
Speaker 2:That's okay, they can judge.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's okay. So we are well. First of all, like, this has just been a fantastic conversation, eric. I appreciate your candor and you know again your willingness to be here. Is there anything else that you think would be really important for others to know about type three? Anything else you want to add?
Speaker 2:You know, depending on the type three. Depending on the type three, the only thing that I would say is, especially if you are really close friends with one or you're married to one and you wonder why are they doing the things they do? Just having the conversation with them? This goes both ways, obviously, but one of the most powerful things that you can do in a relationship is try to understand why the person does the things that they do, and if we can do that more in our relationships, the Engram is a powerful tool.
Speaker 1:Truly is.
Speaker 2:To just understand what drives the other person and why do they think and act the way that they do. And my encouragement to everybody is to lean into that and understand how yourself, what drives you and then, just as importantly, what drives the other significant person in your life and how can you help them grow, how can you support them in their journey, and then, by doing so, they're going to support you and yours. So what is? A very simple, very calm what are you? What are you scared of today, or what would happen if you don't accomplish that?
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And how can I help?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how can I help you with that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, how can I support you in?
Speaker 1:that. How can I support you? How can I help you? How can I support you? That's a really good question, and I would imagine that you would have to already have built trust with the three to even ask those questions.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, that can't just be somebody off the street doing that. It has to be somebody who's within, within the inner circle, the circle of trust.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 1:So for those of that, those that are listening, if you have a, an important person in your life who is a type three, If you have an important person, in your life who is a type three remember these questions because they can be quite powerful into giving insight and open up a deeper conversation, and that builds intimacy, that builds even deeper trust, and I love that. Yeah, yeah, well, eric, thank you so much for again for sharing and for all of your insight into what it's like being a type three, and I hope that I can have you on again sometime and relay, because I've already told Kelly this I'd like to have the two of you on together as as a couple.
Speaker 2:Oh no, that would be fun. That would be fun because, you know, going back to the relationship thing, the Enneagram has helped both of us so much understand the why behind just the way we do things, the way we do life as individuals and then as a couple. It's been a tremendous tool. So thanks for letting me share, thanks for letting me come on and sharing this time with you, wendy. I mean I I really appreciate everything you do for your friends, your clients, and just how how much you pour into other people's lives. So this has been a great time, thank you.
Speaker 1:You're very welcome and I will see you sometime soon, hopefully, all right?
Speaker 2:Sounds good, see ya.
Speaker 1:Bye.